LBG closing all my accounts on 18th May

gt94sss2

Section62 said:

Bridlington1 said:

datz said:

That doesn't seem as clear-cut as I was expecting. I mean there is a pattern of taking liberties there (over a single year period), but it's not that excessive. I know people that have taken advantage to a higher degree - granted this was a few years ago now, so maybe banks have been tightening up on what they consider abusive customers (which I would understand from a business perspective).

....

I suspect LBG are just starting to clamp down on us financial tarts and I have proved to be early on in the firing line. Time will tell though. LBG do seem to have been pretty lenient over the years so are possibly trying to rectify this.

I suspect the accounts being opened in January may have simply been the straw that broke the camel's back. With the exception of around £20-30 I stored in the savings account overnight due to me transferring just over £25k into it in January, I have not kept more than £1 in any of them for more than a few seconds. I have been bouncing £1 through each of them once per week to try and make them "active" for they YouGov points.

My transactions are quite frequent, on average I bounce just over £20k/mth through Lloyds as it's my nominated account for quite a few savings accounts. Even then they're all transfers to and from my other bank accounts (all UK accounts).
....

I wonder whether it is your student status which is the issue here.

The current account opening/switching activity is a lot, but possibly not enough to justify closing all your accounts in response (stoping you opening any more might be more proportionate as per the other banking groups).

Yes, I suspect it's the fact that @Bridlington1 is a student - banks will expect them to only have one current account - plus the fact that he has deliberately maxed out his interest free overdraft at Lloyds (only £50 - not worth doing imho) and that accounts keep being opened/closed.

In their position, I would not be opening any more current accounts for a couple of years - just to qualify for an incentive - given at least two banking groups have now blacklisted him.

pecunianonolet

I have been reading this thread with very high interest and unfortunately, I think LBG is on the hunt clearing their customer base. 

I opened a Lloyds account in January to benefit from their switching offer. I used a freshly opened Metro account for it since I didn't have any other donor account. As soon as I got the incentive I downgraded the account to a free classic account. After I got the statement and confirmation that no fees were payable I upgraded to Club, purely to get the cinema tickets, which took around 4 weeks to arrive.

The crucial bit, I opened within a very short period of time, I guess within a week, maybe two (would need to check all the emails for exact details) another 4 classic accounts. 

Of the classic accounts I switched away 2 on the same day to Natwest and RBS. After the switch was completed, I opened over the course of I think 3 days another 2 classic accounts to replenish the ones switched away. I was tempted on the Santander switch as well but was conscious of another switch and hard search and was trying to leave as much space as possible and then the offer was withdrawn. Not the end of the world, another one will come round.

Now, a few weeks later on the 6th March I opened a first direct current account for their switch offer (and access to the 7% reg saver), no issues and switch is in progress and should finish soon. They only gave a rather far in the future switch date as the first opportunity so accepted it as is. Lloyds again sent out a latter informing me they received a switch request and if this is wrong I should get in touch, same as with RBS & Natwest. HSBC is my main account for almost 15 years now and I think first direct must have had access to data that way. First direct had at account opening the ID checks, I took a photo of my passport as they required but when they wanted a live picture my phone denied the request and the whole process got cancelled and they said they'll get in touch. Got all documents, card and PIN and account working and the £1000 have been bounced through to meet the requirement. I also applied for a new account with Ulster and the signed application form was posted only yesterday, again a Lloyds account has been used at application stage for the switch.

I also had to apply for a Virgin current account to use the now NLA 4.25% 1y fix ISA, which got fully funded. However, HSBC was unable to make a 16k transaction in one go (put 4k into the ISA the day before), spent over 1h on the phone with them and was unable to make that transaction via app r online banking. However, was able to make make several smaller withdrawals from HSBC to Virgin ISA directly and to Club Lloyds. So I bounced money through Lloyds for this and funded the ISA that way too. HSBC complaint was raised via chat a few days later, it was dealt with immediately via chat and got compensated with £50 straight and complaint closed after I accepted.

Now, since I have enough donor/burner accounts with Lloyds I though, amazing, another opportunity with Halifax for yet another £175 and the opportunity to make a 5er in rewards as well. Was even planning to increase the number to 3 reward accounts to make it £15 a month.

SO applied to Halifax on the 14th of March, initiated a switch at account opening with a Lloyds account as it was confirmed here it is possible and the T&S's also not specified anything further. Got a text straight away from Halifax Switching Team telling me they received my request and will be in touch soon. 

On the 15th in the morning I got another text confirming switch date of 23rd March and a phone number should I have any further questions. Happy days I thought. 

On 16th of March I received the letter with the registration code for online banking. Did all everything required in the evening and got a text that I have successfully registered for online banking. Since I was in and everything worked so smoothly and without issues with Lloyds the weeks before, I thought this is great and opened a regular saver via app. No issues. Thought I go ahead and open a classic current account as well to upgrade in a few weeks to a rewards account. Current account application was declined. 

On the morning of the 17th March I received a text:

Mr pecunianonolet. We've now completed some further checks on your Current Account application and decided to close this new account. You may still get a message from us saying we've accepted your application. You can disregard this and destroy any card or PIN you received for this account. We're sending you a letter to confirm the closure and explain the reasons for it in more detail. You'll receive this in the next few days. Thank you.

I was rather annoyed, so went on to the app and asked in chat and got a reference number and phone number. I did not raise a complaint, it was only an inquiry at this point. Phoned and explained the case and asked for more detail. The gentleman on the other side said he is checking and put me on hold for at least 3-4 minutes and then told me that I have not met some of the criteria. I was asking what they are and in what part I failed and the answer was that he is unable to let me know. I was telling him that I would like to appeal to this decision and that I happily take it to the ombudsman if I feel that I have not been treated fairly, that I am happy to provide proof of address, payslips and identity details such as my passport and anything else they might require. His answer was that he is unable to deal with this and that it will be forwarded to his manager to review. He confirmed that a letter was posted the previous day and should be with me soon and will contain some info and what next steps I can do. Fair to say, that he was not the most friendly person to deal with.

Going to be interesting to see what the letter will say and if it is identical to the one posted. I have had no other issues with Lloyds itself, all the accounts show a NIL balance with them, except of the club and standard reg savers having had been funded with their allowance for March. 

The reasons could be the same, too many new accounts opened in a short while and soon after switched away. However, what speaks against this theory is that the OH did more or less the same:

- New Metro account switch to Lloyds
- Natwest/RBS switch completed and incentives received last week using Lloyds donor accounts
- Ulster application signed and posted yesterday
- Halifax account opened and accidentally she put down the account details of the account we already switched to Natwest so this was obviously declined. Submitted a new switch request for another unused Lloyds account on Sunday, no comms since about the switch but account open and working
- OH not able to use First Direct as she had an HSBC switch incentive before


So the multi account opening/switching could be a reason but it might also be that I just had in general too many hard searches and account openings. I also had 6 credit cards in the last 3 months for stoozing, however, non with LBG.

On another note, had raised a complaint a few weeks back as my Experian credit file showed all Natwest Group searches as credit searches, non of their entries was marked as a current account search and I also had a search I was not recognising as it should have only been a soft search and not  hard search so asked them to investigate and clarify and if needed correct. I never applied for any overdraft. Natwest compliant was investigated and they initially thought this extra search could be fraud, I agreed to be investigated but said that I can't approve or deny of it and just wanted to get facts first. As a result, shortly after I was given the outcome that they checked and requested for 3 searches to be removed, however, this was subject to approval and may or my not happen and I need to check again in 3 months. I was also assured in writing, that no CIFAS markers are applied to my file. However, since that my credit cards disappeared from my RBS/Natwest account. No access to statements, amends or checks of repayment etc. RBS took some money beginning of the month and Natwest was supposed to but nothing happened. I have responded to the complaints advisor to clarify why the accounts disappeared, no answer for over a week when they usually tried to call after 1-2 days. Chased up on it again, that's now over 10 days ago, nothing and accounts still invisible.

I am a higher earner, can comfortably put £2000 a month aside for savings/repayments and in theory be able to repay my stoozing debt easily, never had a missed payment ever so in the eyes of banks I should be a trustworthy customer.

Bit of a longer story but hope it provides enough details so others not get caught or into similar trouble. 

Bridlington1

k_man said:

@Bridlington1 said:
I suspect LBG are just starting to clamp down on us financial tarts and I have proved to be early on in the firing line.

I think this may well be the case.

I opened a few saving accounts with LBG (9 across the group), all on the same day.
The following day all were closed with immediate effect (fortunately only the new savings accounts).

These required visits to branches to withdraw the balances, which in total were less than £10.

I fear the big banking clampdown may have begun! 
(At least with LBG).
Let's hope the only trigger is new unusual account behaviour. If they start to review existing ones it will get very messy, as there are a lot of accounts not being used for their intended purpose!

I don't want to sound too pessimistic here but I suspect this sort of closure will become more widespread over the coming years. As banks's technical systems get more advanced they will likely become better at picking out unprofitable customers and will be inclined to close their accounts.

Section62 said:

Bridlington1 said:

datz said:

That doesn't seem as clear-cut as I was expecting. I mean there is a pattern of taking liberties there (over a single year period), but it's not that excessive. I know people that have taken advantage to a higher degree - granted this was a few years ago now, so maybe banks have been tightening up on what they consider abusive customers (which I would understand from a business perspective).

....

I suspect LBG are just starting to clamp down on us financial tarts and I have proved to be early on in the firing line. Time will tell though. LBG do seem to have been pretty lenient over the years so are possibly trying to rectify this.

I suspect the accounts being opened in January may have simply been the straw that broke the camel's back. With the exception of around £20-30 I stored in the savings account overnight due to me transferring just over £25k into it in January, I have not kept more than £1 in any of them for more than a few seconds. I have been bouncing £1 through each of them once per week to try and make them "active" for they YouGov points.

My transactions are quite frequent, on average I bounce just over £20k/mth through Lloyds as it's my nominated account for quite a few savings accounts. Even then they're all transfers to and from my other bank accounts (all UK accounts).
....

I wonder whether it is your student status which is the issue here.

The current account opening/switching activity is a lot, but possibly not enough to justify closing all your accounts in response (stoping you opening any more might be more proportionate as per the other banking groups).

However in combination with the kind of transaction activity you have going on it may have been that LBG didn't like the look of you.  LBG won't know why you are pushing the £1 payments through the savers, and unless the person/algorithm reviewing your account knows about the YouGov offer then this activity will look very odd indeed.

Also, a student with an (possibly) apparent income of £20k/month isn't your typical student.  Ok, it isn't actually your income, but Lloyds won't know that (the point is often made on the forum that pay-ins =/= income, but the banks won't necessarily know).  This could be a case where there is sufficient conflict between the KYC information and how you are operating the account(s) to flag your actions up as suspicious.

Another possible factor is that students are not unknown for being tricked into money muling/laundering. Having multiple accounts being opened and switched around, and a flow of money around them, might flag up as activity which carries a risk of money muling/laundering being involved. Accounts which are treated as 'throwaway' (or even "burners" as some people seem to call them) might be indistinguishable from those being used by people with criminal intent.

None of the above is intended as a criticism of you or students in general though. It is unlikely you (or we) will ever find out in full what has happened here, but hopefully your experience might prompt others to dial down the sometimes gung-ho over enthusiastic approach encouraged by some (not you).

Commiserations though.  It isn't a nice thing to happen to you, and something many of us probably fear might happen to us as well.

My student status could certainly be causing some issues. Some banks seem to class student maintenance loan and bursaries as income such as HSBC, others don't class it as income such as TSB. As a result there will likely be discrepancies of around £11k between the income that one bank holds about me and the income another holds. I'm pretty certain all the LBG banks have my income as £14.5k so this could possibly be coming into play.

The thing that surprised me was that there was no warning whatsoever, unless they've tried sending letters out prior to this that have been lost in the post somewhere. I've submitted DSARs for all 3 LBG banks last night so will find out in due course.

If it is the pay ins that are causing the issues then it's looking like I will have to watch VM and Nationwide like a hawk. Both of these accounts have average monthly pay ins of around £10k/mth as they are the main nominated accounts I hold other than Lloyds and I shall probably be using Ulster or Metro as a replacement for the Lloyds account as they're the ones I've opened the most recently.

It's all a bit of a pain really. Lloyds was the one sort code and account number that I'd memorised so it has become a natural nominated account as a result.

artyboy

I got the trio of LBG letters over 5 years ago - rather like the OP, I had been making enthusiastic use of all benefits on offer, had as many interest bearing current and savings accounts that were allowed, not to mention moving money around each month.

Absolutely no activity that went against T&Cs, plus I had an immaculate credit file, but they still didn't want me. No idea if there was one specific event that triggered it or it was a series of increments, Ah well...

I'm now just more curious about how long their internal records are retained - so if I were to try and open an account in 5/10/25 years time, would I still be persona non grata...

Bridlington1

bristolleedsfan said:

I wonder if these instances of account closures has anything to do with You Gov Finance sharing data.

I have 17 spend and save accounts, have opened 2 within 24 hours periodically over a period of time, the last 2 opened last month both got closed following further checks., was the first time I opened 2 accounts 2 months running, info I gave on application form was the same as previously, only those 2 most recently opened accounts have been closed.

It could well be. It seems to be indirectly linked at least. I opened more accounts than usual with LBG as a result of the YouGov finance bribe which seems to have sparked the account review and closures. Lloyds will be able to see that all those accounts became linked to YouGov finance so have probably deduced that I was opening the more recent accounts solely for the points.

AmityNeon

bristolleedsfan said:

I wonder if these instances of account closures has anything to do with You Gov Finance sharing data.

It's rather uncanny how YouGov Finance has just today limited the number of accounts to a maximum of 10. Had the restriction been in place from the beginning, there would have been no incentive for customers to mass open skeleton accounts and trigger reviews. Still, closing only new accounts as a warning shot is far preferable to closing all accounts and banning all future custom.

Bridlington1

trient said:

Won't probably help much, but you could try a SAR against each of the LBG members and see if it uncovers something.  You'd have to be careful on wording, try poking around internal notes containing personal information relevant to you.

I had an incident with Barclays (there's a thread around here from a few years ago) where they closed my account just a few days after I opened it.  No reason given and of course people here advised I should move on - but I pressed on it, did a SAR which uncovered some obviously incorrect fraud assumptions on internal notes, I challenged that to the CEO's executive support team and had my complaint upheld - then I was able to reopen the account and have been happily using it ever since.  Not saying it will work, but it's worth trying on the off chance you might learn something useful.

Good idea, I shall submit a DSAR for Barclays later on.

gt94sss2

pecunianonolet said:

I was rather annoyed, so went on to the app and asked in chat and got a reference number and phone number. I did not raise a complaint, it was only an inquiry at this point. Phoned and explained the case and asked for more detail. The gentleman on the other side said he is checking and put me on hold for at least 3-4 minutes and then told me that I have not met some of the criteria. I was asking what they are and in what part I failed and the answer was that he is unable to let me know. I was telling him that I would like to appeal to this decision and that I happily take it to the ombudsman if I feel that I have not been treated fairly

I imagine you know this but the Ombudsman will not rule in your favour if a bank has decided not to give you an account.

Nor are a bank likely to tell anyone which criteria they fail, as that could make fraud more likely 

flaneurs_lobster

There's an air of entitlement creeping into this thread (as it often does). People (including myself) have been milking the system for some time, some even boast of having broken the T&Cs because the banks don't bother checking or enforcing their own rules.

Well it seems that at least one bank has bothered.

As others have said, banks can choose who they wish to have as customers. If I were a bank I probably wouldn't want me.

AmityNeon

flaneurs_lobster said:

As others have said, banks can choose who they wish to have as customers.

That is true, but a forewarning to discourage further undesirable behaviour is preferable to severing all existing relations and a lifelong ban (unless it's fraud or a history of perennial unpaid debt). With personal finance 'champions' and 'gurus' both old and new peddling various unconventional methods of grabbing free money and taking advantage of incentives, financial institutions are perfectly free to explicitly stipulate more stringent and restrictive terms and conditions to prevent abuse, decline new applications, or close new accounts, without blindsiding an existing customer's longstanding financial setup with a bulldozer.