LBG closing all my accounts on 18th May

pecunianonolet

gt94sss2 said:

pecunianonolet said:

I was rather annoyed, so went on to the app and asked in chat and got a reference number and phone number. I did not raise a complaint, it was only an inquiry at this point. Phoned and explained the case and asked for more detail. The gentleman on the other side said he is checking and put me on hold for at least 3-4 minutes and then told me that I have not met some of the criteria. I was asking what they are and in what part I failed and the answer was that he is unable to let me know. I was telling him that I would like to appeal to this decision and that I happily take it to the ombudsman if I feel that I have not been treated fairly

I imagine you know this but the Ombudsman will not rule in your favour if a bank has decided not to give you an account.

Nor are a bank likely to tell anyone which criteria they fail, as that could make fraud more likely 

Yes I know this and I would not expect the Ombudsman to overrule the banks decision as this is basically final unless you can proof that they made false assumptions, used incorrect data leading to their decision, treated you unfairly, etc. However, you kind of need to know why so you can offer to provide additional documentation, which might or might not make them re-evaluate the case. I would think everyone should at least have the chance to defend and explain themselves. 

I would hope that the Ombudsman would be the very last resort of gathering additional information, if any other way not shed any more light into it. I have not broken, as far as I am aware, any T&C's or indeed the law., I have just stretched it too far it seems. I fully understand that every bank can decide if they want to do business with me or not and that is very legitimate as I also can decide if I want to do business with them. 

My credit score with Experian (I know it is just a meaningless number) was excellent and so was it with Transunion until October last year when I started to apply for credit cards, opened new accounts, etc. That it is now showing me as very poor is the result of my own actions, and I was aware of this and accepted it. My UK credit score will come back up and in 12 months will be clean as a plate fresh out of the dishwasher when all searches have dropped off. Furthermore, long term plans (next 1.5 - 2 years) are independent of any UK credit score anyway so in short I don't really care if Halifax is blocking me or not. What I do care about is the one opportunity less of milking the system now and possibly in the near future and some £££ less for a planned property project and permanent residency outside of UK. What are £200 less when you plan with 300-400K.... a few takeaways less at best and the OH and I cashed in (with some switches pending) on over £2000 in the last 3 months so I guess the milking overall has been rather successful with some collateral damage on route 

That we all try to milk the system, use loopholes and bribes is normal, we wouldn't be here otherwise. That many people are desperate for extra cash, especially if it can be obtained fairly easy with next to now effort, in times when many people suffer is just natural too. 

At the end not every fight is worth fighting and I have to choose my battles wisely.

trient

This is by far the most exciting and bubbly thread in a while (at least since the kittens).

While nervously biting my nails in expectation of possible bad news (I suspect like many others here), and trying to remain positive, my take is that this is all down to algorithms raising flags & case workers not interested to take any risks particularly given comfy backing by own T&Cs and FOS.

For people familiar with the Solihull/Bendy fiasco, banks can be very heavy handed and collateral damage is to be expected.  Maybe this is a change for Martin Lewis to champion.

pecunianonolet

Love the part that we now talk about greed. If that makes people happy, yes I am greedy. Do I need the extra cash, no. Do I want the extra cash, yes. That's how capitalism works, whether this is a good or bad system is a very different question. 

But when we talk about needs, according to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I actually need very little. 

I think somebody posted earlier, but can't see it any longer or I am blind, how Lloyds want to separate their services between profit classes. Why do we have Private banking again?

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article-11609981/Lloyds-controversial-plan-10-million-loyal-customers-second-rate-service.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64729549

12% increase in bonus pots, but savers are not given good rates and others get kicked altogether.

Seems like greed works in both ways, bank needed bailout cash and my tax money and now they do well, I want some of it back. Seems fair to me 

Section62

Bridlington1 said:

My student status could certainly be causing some issues. Some banks seem to class student maintenance loan and bursaries as income such as HSBC, others don't class it as income such as TSB. As a result there will likely be discrepancies of around £11k between the income that one bank holds about me and the income another holds. I'm pretty certain all the LBG banks have my income as £14.5k so this could possibly be coming into play.

That difference might be a factor, but I was thinking more specifically about the difference between your £11k/£14.5k annual income (declared), and the apparent income of £20k per month.

Where are you getting £20k per month from?  We of course all know the answer to that, but the bank's systems won't, and that could throw a spanner in the works.

dealyboy

@flaneurs_lobster ...

flaneurs_lobster said:

There's an air of entitlement creeping into this thread (as it often does). People (including myself) have been milking the system for some time, some even boast of having broken the T&Cs because the banks don't bother checking or enforcing their own rules.

Well it seems that at least one bank has bothered.

As others have said, banks can choose who they wish to have as customers. If I were a bank I probably wouldn't want me.

... nor would I ... only kidding I think you're great ! 

ForumUser7

Section62 said:

Bridlington1 said:

My student status could certainly be causing some issues. Some banks seem to class student maintenance loan and bursaries as income such as HSBC, others don't class it as income such as TSB. As a result there will likely be discrepancies of around £11k between the income that one bank holds about me and the income another holds. I'm pretty certain all the LBG banks have my income as £14.5k so this could possibly be coming into play.

That difference might be a factor, but I was thinking more specifically about the difference between your £11k/£14.5k annual income (declared), and the apparent income of £20k per month.

Where are you getting £20k per month from?  We of course all know the answer to that, but the bank's systems won't, and that could throw a spanner in the works.

The biggest problem is they didn't ask for additional information. I get its cheaper for them to close the account rather than properly investigating, but IMO they should ask the customer about the concerns/discrepancies first, and give them a chance to clear it up and avoid account closure

Bridlington1

Section62 said:

Bridlington1 said:

My student status could certainly be causing some issues. Some banks seem to class student maintenance loan and bursaries as income such as HSBC, others don't class it as income such as TSB. As a result there will likely be discrepancies of around £11k between the income that one bank holds about me and the income another holds. I'm pretty certain all the LBG banks have my income as £14.5k so this could possibly be coming into play.

That difference might be a factor, but I was thinking more specifically about the difference between your £11k/£14.5k annual income (declared), and the apparent income of £20k per month.

Where are you getting £20k per month from?  We of course all know the answer to that, but the bank's systems won't, and that could throw a spanner in the works.

The £20k/mth is the average amount of money that has bounced through my accounts on their way to other savings accounts. I currently have around £60k in savings so it is largely the same money going back and forth and round in circles. The amount going through the account has varied from month to month, hitting just over £50k in November last year and being as low as £4750 in February 2022. I always report that I have over £50k in savings when applying for new accounts and have bounced money through the account from the day it was opened (November 2021) so never thought much of the deposits/withdrawals.

Essentially whenever a savings account becomes the top rate my EA savings bounce over to them, going via Lloyds around 50% of the time. The reason it's become so central is because it was the first sort code and account number I memorised so naturally became the most convenient one to use when applying for new accounts.

WillPS

pecunianonolet said:

I have been reading this thread with very high interest and unfortunately, I think LBG is on the hunt clearing their customer base. 

I opened a Lloyds account in January to benefit from their switching offer. I used a freshly opened Metro account for it since I didn't have any other donor account. As soon as I got the incentive I downgraded the account to a free classic account. After I got the statement and confirmation that no fees were payable I upgraded to Club, purely to get the cinema tickets, which took around 4 weeks to arrive.

The crucial bit, I opened within a very short period of time, I guess within a week, maybe two (would need to check all the emails for exact details) another 4 classic accounts. 

Of the classic accounts I switched away 2 on the same day to Natwest and RBS. After the switch was completed, I opened over the course of I think 3 days another 2 classic accounts to replenish the ones switched away. I was tempted on the Santander switch as well but was conscious of another switch and hard search and was trying to leave as much space as possible and then the offer was withdrawn. Not the end of the world, another one will come round.

Now, a few weeks later on the 6th March I opened a first direct current account for their switch offer (and access to the 7% reg saver), no issues and switch is in progress and should finish soon. They only gave a rather far in the future switch date as the first opportunity so accepted it as is. Lloyds again sent out a latter informing me they received a switch request and if this is wrong I should get in touch, same as with RBS & Natwest. HSBC is my main account for almost 15 years now and I think first direct must have had access to data that way. First direct had at account opening the ID checks, I took a photo of my passport as they required but when they wanted a live picture my phone denied the request and the whole process got cancelled and they said they'll get in touch. Got all documents, card and PIN and account working and the £1000 have been bounced through to meet the requirement. I also applied for a new account with Ulster and the signed application form was posted only yesterday, again a Lloyds account has been used at application stage for the switch.

I also had to apply for a Virgin current account to use the now NLA 4.25% 1y fix ISA, which got fully funded. However, HSBC was unable to make a 16k transaction in one go (put 4k into the ISA the day before), spent over 1h on the phone with them and was unable to make that transaction via app r online banking. However, was able to make make several smaller withdrawals from HSBC to Virgin ISA directly and to Club Lloyds. So I bounced money through Lloyds for this and funded the ISA that way too. HSBC complaint was raised via chat a few days later, it was dealt with immediately via chat and got compensated with £50 straight and complaint closed after I accepted.

Now, since I have enough donor/burner accounts with Lloyds I though, amazing, another opportunity with Halifax for yet another £175 and the opportunity to make a 5er in rewards as well. Was even planning to increase the number to 3 reward accounts to make it £15 a month.

SO applied to Halifax on the 14th of March, initiated a switch at account opening with a Lloyds account as it was confirmed here it is possible and the T&S's also not specified anything further. Got a text straight away from Halifax Switching Team telling me they received my request and will be in touch soon. 

On the 15th in the morning I got another text confirming switch date of 23rd March and a phone number should I have any further questions. Happy days I thought. 

On 16th of March I received the letter with the registration code for online banking. Did all everything required in the evening and got a text that I have successfully registered for online banking. Since I was in and everything worked so smoothly and without issues with Lloyds the weeks before, I thought this is great and opened a regular saver via app. No issues. Thought I go ahead and open a classic current account as well to upgrade in a few weeks to a rewards account. Current account application was declined. 

On the morning of the 17th March I received a text:

Mr pecunianonolet. We've now completed some further checks on your Current Account application and decided to close this new account. You may still get a message from us saying we've accepted your application. You can disregard this and destroy any card or PIN you received for this account. We're sending you a letter to confirm the closure and explain the reasons for it in more detail. You'll receive this in the next few days. Thank you.

I was rather annoyed, so went on to the app and asked in chat and got a reference number and phone number. I did not raise a complaint, it was only an inquiry at this point. Phoned and explained the case and asked for more detail. The gentleman on the other side said he is checking and put me on hold for at least 3-4 minutes and then told me that I have not met some of the criteria. I was asking what they are and in what part I failed and the answer was that he is unable to let me know. I was telling him that I would like to appeal to this decision and that I happily take it to the ombudsman if I feel that I have not been treated fairly, that I am happy to provide proof of address, payslips and identity details such as my passport and anything else they might require. His answer was that he is unable to deal with this and that it will be forwarded to his manager to review. He confirmed that a letter was posted the previous day and should be with me soon and will contain some info and what next steps I can do. Fair to say, that he was not the most friendly person to deal with.

Going to be interesting to see what the letter will say and if it is identical to the one posted. I have had no other issues with Lloyds itself, all the accounts show a NIL balance with them, except of the club and standard reg savers having had been funded with their allowance for March. 

The reasons could be the same, too many new accounts opened in a short while and soon after switched away. However, what speaks against this theory is that the OH did more or less the same:

- New Metro account switch to Lloyds
- Natwest/RBS switch completed and incentives received last week using Lloyds donor accounts
- Ulster application signed and posted yesterday
- Halifax account opened and accidentally she put down the account details of the account we already switched to Natwest so this was obviously declined. Submitted a new switch request for another unused Lloyds account on Sunday, no comms since about the switch but account open and working
- OH not able to use First Direct as she had an HSBC switch incentive before


So the multi account opening/switching could be a reason but it might also be that I just had in general too many hard searches and account openings. I also had 6 credit cards in the last 3 months for stoozing, however, non with LBG.

On another note, had raised a complaint a few weeks back as my Experian credit file showed all Natwest Group searches as credit searches, non of their entries was marked as a current account search and I also had a search I was not recognising as it should have only been a soft search and not  hard search so asked them to investigate and clarify and if needed correct. I never applied for any overdraft. Natwest compliant was investigated and they initially thought this extra search could be fraud, I agreed to be investigated but said that I can't approve or deny of it and just wanted to get facts first. As a result, shortly after I was given the outcome that they checked and requested for 3 searches to be removed, however, this was subject to approval and may or my not happen and I need to check again in 3 months. I was also assured in writing, that no CIFAS markers are applied to my file. However, since that my credit cards disappeared from my RBS/Natwest account. No access to statements, amends or checks of repayment etc. RBS took some money beginning of the month and Natwest was supposed to but nothing happened. I have responded to the complaints advisor to clarify why the accounts disappeared, no answer for over a week when they usually tried to call after 1-2 days. Chased up on it again, that's now over 10 days ago, nothing and accounts still invisible.

I am a higher earner, can comfortably put £2000 a month aside for savings/repayments and in theory be able to repay my stoozing debt easily, never had a missed payment ever so in the eyes of banks I should be a trustworthy customer.

Bit of a longer story but hope it provides enough details so others not get caught or into similar trouble. 

Did you not think at any point you were massively taking the mickey? I would be expecting LBG to permanently shut the door on me if I had the gall to open 4 current accounts at once only to switch them away almost immediately, one to another LBG brand!

Bridlington1

It looks like they've started closing my accounts already. My Halifax regular saver that I opened on 16th March has disappeared from online banking along with the £250 that was sat in it. I assume there will be a cheque being sent to me in the post. Clearly they're closing any account opened after the 15th March with immediate affect. 

dealyboy

Hi @WillPS ... and thanks to @pecunianonolet for providing an honest and open discussion of their actions.

WillPS said:

pecunianonolet said:

I have been reading this thread with very high interest and unfortunately, I think LBG is on the hunt clearing their customer base. 

I opened a Lloyds account in January to benefit from their switching offer. I used a freshly opened Metro account for it since I didn't have any other donor account. As soon as I got the incentive I downgraded the account to a free classic account. After I got the statement and confirmation that no fees were payable I upgraded to Club, purely to get the cinema tickets, which took around 4 weeks to arrive.

The crucial bit, I opened within a very short period of time, I guess within a week, maybe two (would need to check all the emails for exact details) another 4 classic accounts. 

Of the classic accounts I switched away 2 on the same day to Natwest and RBS. After the switch was completed, I opened over the course of I think 3 days another 2 classic accounts to replenish the ones switched away. I was tempted on the Santander switch as well but was conscious of another switch and hard search and was trying to leave as much space as possible and then the offer was withdrawn. Not the end of the world, another one will come round.

Now, a few weeks later on the 6th March I opened a first direct current account for their switch offer (and access to the 7% reg saver), no issues and switch is in progress and should finish soon. They only gave a rather far in the future switch date as the first opportunity so accepted it as is. Lloyds again sent out a latter informing me they received a switch request and if this is wrong I should get in touch, same as with RBS & Natwest. HSBC is my main account for almost 15 years now and I think first direct must have had access to data that way. First direct had at account opening the ID checks, I took a photo of my passport as they required but when they wanted a live picture my phone denied the request and the whole process got cancelled and they said they'll get in touch. Got all documents, card and PIN and account working and the £1000 have been bounced through to meet the requirement. I also applied for a new account with Ulster and the signed application form was posted only yesterday, again a Lloyds account has been used at application stage for the switch.

I also had to apply for a Virgin current account to use the now NLA 4.25% 1y fix ISA, which got fully funded. However, HSBC was unable to make a 16k transaction in one go (put 4k into the ISA the day before), spent over 1h on the phone with them and was unable to make that transaction via app r online banking. However, was able to make make several smaller withdrawals from HSBC to Virgin ISA directly and to Club Lloyds. So I bounced money through Lloyds for this and funded the ISA that way too. HSBC complaint was raised via chat a few days later, it was dealt with immediately via chat and got compensated with £50 straight and complaint closed after I accepted.

Now, since I have enough donor/burner accounts with Lloyds I though, amazing, another opportunity with Halifax for yet another £175 and the opportunity to make a 5er in rewards as well. Was even planning to increase the number to 3 reward accounts to make it £15 a month.

SO applied to Halifax on the 14th of March, initiated a switch at account opening with a Lloyds account as it was confirmed here it is possible and the T&S's also not specified anything further. Got a text straight away from Halifax Switching Team telling me they received my request and will be in touch soon. 

On the 15th in the morning I got another text confirming switch date of 23rd March and a phone number should I have any further questions. Happy days I thought. 

On 16th of March I received the letter with the registration code for online banking. Did all everything required in the evening and got a text that I have successfully registered for online banking. Since I was in and everything worked so smoothly and without issues with Lloyds the weeks before, I thought this is great and opened a regular saver via app. No issues. Thought I go ahead and open a classic current account as well to upgrade in a few weeks to a rewards account. Current account application was declined. 

On the morning of the 17th March I received a text:

Mr pecunianonolet. We've now completed some further checks on your Current Account application and decided to close this new account. You may still get a message from us saying we've accepted your application. You can disregard this and destroy any card or PIN you received for this account. We're sending you a letter to confirm the closure and explain the reasons for it in more detail. You'll receive this in the next few days. Thank you.

I was rather annoyed, so went on to the app and asked in chat and got a reference number and phone number. I did not raise a complaint, it was only an inquiry at this point. Phoned and explained the case and asked for more detail. The gentleman on the other side said he is checking and put me on hold for at least 3-4 minutes and then told me that I have not met some of the criteria. I was asking what they are and in what part I failed and the answer was that he is unable to let me know. I was telling him that I would like to appeal to this decision and that I happily take it to the ombudsman if I feel that I have not been treated fairly, that I am happy to provide proof of address, payslips and identity details such as my passport and anything else they might require. His answer was that he is unable to deal with this and that it will be forwarded to his manager to review. He confirmed that a letter was posted the previous day and should be with me soon and will contain some info and what next steps I can do. Fair to say, that he was not the most friendly person to deal with.

Going to be interesting to see what the letter will say and if it is identical to the one posted. I have had no other issues with Lloyds itself, all the accounts show a NIL balance with them, except of the club and standard reg savers having had been funded with their allowance for March. 

The reasons could be the same, too many new accounts opened in a short while and soon after switched away. However, what speaks against this theory is that the OH did more or less the same:

- New Metro account switch to Lloyds
- Natwest/RBS switch completed and incentives received last week using Lloyds donor accounts
- Ulster application signed and posted yesterday
- Halifax account opened and accidentally she put down the account details of the account we already switched to Natwest so this was obviously declined. Submitted a new switch request for another unused Lloyds account on Sunday, no comms since about the switch but account open and working
- OH not able to use First Direct as she had an HSBC switch incentive before


So the multi account opening/switching could be a reason but it might also be that I just had in general too many hard searches and account openings. I also had 6 credit cards in the last 3 months for stoozing, however, non with LBG.

On another note, had raised a complaint a few weeks back as my Experian credit file showed all Natwest Group searches as credit searches, non of their entries was marked as a current account search and I also had a search I was not recognising as it should have only been a soft search and not  hard search so asked them to investigate and clarify and if needed correct. I never applied for any overdraft. Natwest compliant was investigated and they initially thought this extra search could be fraud, I agreed to be investigated but said that I can't approve or deny of it and just wanted to get facts first. As a result, shortly after I was given the outcome that they checked and requested for 3 searches to be removed, however, this was subject to approval and may or my not happen and I need to check again in 3 months. I was also assured in writing, that no CIFAS markers are applied to my file. However, since that my credit cards disappeared from my RBS/Natwest account. No access to statements, amends or checks of repayment etc. RBS took some money beginning of the month and Natwest was supposed to but nothing happened. I have responded to the complaints advisor to clarify why the accounts disappeared, no answer for over a week when they usually tried to call after 1-2 days. Chased up on it again, that's now over 10 days ago, nothing and accounts still invisible.

I am a higher earner, can comfortably put £2000 a month aside for savings/repayments and in theory be able to repay my stoozing debt easily, never had a missed payment ever so in the eyes of banks I should be a trustworthy customer.

Bit of a longer story but hope it provides enough details so others not get caught or into similar trouble. 

Did you not think at any point you were massively taking the mickey? I would be expecting LBG to permanently shut the door on me if I had the gall to open 4 current accounts at once only to switch them away almost immediately, one to another LBG brand!

... I don't agree.

MSE'ers want to save money and the more astute want to make money, and in both cases want to give or take advice. pecunia as far as I can see has done nothing illegal and kept within the rules and T&Cs, the only thing he/she/they are guilty of is a little naivety.

Rather than siding with the LBG for being 'offended' by a customer, I am concerned about the consequences for pecunia and partner of these corporate actions.