LBG closing all my accounts on 18th May

datz

Bridlington1 said:

AmityNeon said:

Bridlington1 said:

That'll probably explain it then. In January I opened 5 Club Lloyds savers as well as 3 current accounts within LBG (1 with each bank) and have been bouncing £1 through them for the YouGov finance points ever since. My suspicion is now that this has tipped them over the edge. I never thought much of it at the time as I was able to open 3 Halifax reward accounts in a single day last spring but evidently LBG have taken offence by this.

As it's likely an internal commercial decision, I would surmise it's a combination of the overdraft stoozing and the nine(?) current accounts opened within the space of a year (six of which were promptly switched away), in conjunction with a lack of holding any products from which they can profit (e.g. mortgage, credit cards), as well as perhaps not having a long-standing history.

Did they provide any possible avenue for you to potentially explain or appeal? It's terribly unfortunate when an institution makes a final decision of lifelong permanence, without prior warning or providing any form of recourse. At least Skipton BS sent a written notice of admonishment to those regularly depositing via 15+ different debit cards per month over an extended period.

Your experience with Barclays is even more perplexing considering you held the accounts for barely a month or so, and presumably, there was nothing to remotely suggest why they allowed the accounts to be opened, only to forcibly have them closed soon after.

Here is a copy of the letter I got from Halifax. It doesn't look like there's any way back.

I also agree with the post you quoted. It is highly likely to be a commercial decision given the ~2 month notice of closure, and as they haven't placed any additional restrictions on, or frozen, the accounts. But certainly still worth checking the fraud databases for any adverse markers.

I'd also lean towards your activity regarding opening/switching out multiple current accounts, possibly compounded by the savings accounts. I'd be interested to know the timescales, ie how frequent/recent/aggressive, you were with opening those current accounts and switching them out.

I am somewhat wary of not taking too many liberties with, or blatantly taking advantage of, any one banking group. I do also try to avoid opening and immediately switching new accounts, and usually use accounts that were opened many months in advance. But, in my case, Natwest (group) still chucked me out (on what I also presume was a commercial decision).

LBG have been very "generous" to me over the years, and I really would hate to lose access to their facitlities myself. Thanks for the heads up and (seemingly) being open about the situation - you never do get the full story out of most posters.

MisterMotivated

I could be mistaken but, I seem to recall several years ago reading on here about people having similar issues when holding accounts with all 3 banks.  Halifax and Lloyds seemed to be okay (touch wood, I've had accounts with both for many years), but adding a BOS account for some reason seemed to result in these closure notices for some, hence why I've always steered clear of them...

Bridlington1

datz said:

Bridlington1 said:

AmityNeon said:

Bridlington1 said:

That'll probably explain it then. In January I opened 5 Club Lloyds savers as well as 3 current accounts within LBG (1 with each bank) and have been bouncing £1 through them for the YouGov finance points ever since. My suspicion is now that this has tipped them over the edge. I never thought much of it at the time as I was able to open 3 Halifax reward accounts in a single day last spring but evidently LBG have taken offence by this.

As it's likely an internal commercial decision, I would surmise it's a combination of the overdraft stoozing and the nine(?) current accounts opened within the space of a year (six of which were promptly switched away), in conjunction with a lack of holding any products from which they can profit (e.g. mortgage, credit cards), as well as perhaps not having a long-standing history.

Did they provide any possible avenue for you to potentially explain or appeal? It's terribly unfortunate when an institution makes a final decision of lifelong permanence, without prior warning or providing any form of recourse. At least Skipton BS sent a written notice of admonishment to those regularly depositing via 15+ different debit cards per month over an extended period.

Your experience with Barclays is even more perplexing considering you held the accounts for barely a month or so, and presumably, there was nothing to remotely suggest why they allowed the accounts to be opened, only to forcibly have them closed soon after.

Here is a copy of the letter I got from Halifax. It doesn't look like there's any way back.

I also agree with the post you quoted. It is highly likely to be a commercial decision given the ~2 month notice of closure, and as they haven't placed any additional restrictions on, or frozen, the accounts. But certainly still worth checking the fraud databases for any adverse markers.

I'd also lean towards your activity regarding opening/switching out multiple current accounts, possibly compounded by the savings accounts. I'd be interested to know the timescales, ie how frequent/recent/aggressive, you were with opening those current accounts and switching them out.

I am somewhat wary of not taking too many liberties with, or blatantly taking advantage of, any one banking group. I do also try to avoid opening and immediately switching new accounts, and usually use accounts that were opened many months in advance. The Natwest group still got me though.

LBG have been very "generous" to me over the years, and I really would hate to lose access to their facitlities myself. Thanks for the heads up and (seemingly) being open about the situation - you never do get the full story out of most posters.

I was pretty quick with switching the accounts out. My activity with regards to current accounts are as follows:
BOS:
Account 1 opened 11/8/22, closed 2/9/22
Account 2 opened late August 2022 and is still open to this day. I switched my first Co-op account into it in October/November.
Account 3 opened 3/10/22, closed 12/12/22 (switched into my second Co-op account)
Account 4 opened in January 2023

Halifax:
Account 1 opened Aug 2019 and is first current account I ever opened and has remained with me to this day as my oldest account.
Accounts 2,3 and 4 opened in June 2022 and kept for Halifax reward
Account 5 opened 30/11/2022 and closed on 21/12/22 (switched to Santander so that I could get their student account after Barclays closed mine
Account 6 opened in January 2023 with the BOS one

Lloyds:
Account 1 opened in November 2021, still in use today
Account 2 opened 26/4/22, closed 25/5/22
Account 3 opened 8/8/22, closed 22/8/22
Account 4 opened in January 2023 with the BOS one

So in total 14 current accounts, of which 5 were switched out.

I opened 5 Club Lloyds savers in January 2023 as I have already mentioned earlier in this thread

I have also renewed and closed and reopened 2 Club Lloyds monthly savers, 2 Halifax regular savers, 2 BOS monthly savers and a Lloyds monthly saver in that time.

I chose to be as open and honest as possible as I feel it is of far more use to other forumites to have all the facts in one place and it certainly helped me get to the bottom of this affair a lot quicker than if it had been one of those long and drawn out threads you often see on this forum, so I considered it a no brainer really.

Thanks for the heads up regarding Natwest group.

It looks like I am going to find it difficult to find donor accounts in future now. Virgin doesn't seem to be that usable for opening donor accounts, I can't open a spare Santander account as I have their student account, Barclays is out the equation for the same reason, Virgin looks difficult to open a donor account, I can't switch out Co-op for another couple of months in case the FOS comes up trumps and awards me the £125 for switching a current account to Co-op. First Direct recently declined my application for a current account so presumably that rules out HSBC group as well. All I've feasibly got is Metro and the Natwest group left as donor accounts.

Luckily I do have a spare Natwest and a RBS account which could be utilised in the future though and I hoovered up all the switching incentives last year so it could be a while before they get used.

EarthBoy

Bridlington1 said:

AmityNeon said:

Bridlington1 said:

That'll probably explain it then. In January I opened 5 Club Lloyds savers as well as 3 current accounts within LBG (1 with each bank) and have been bouncing £1 through them for the YouGov finance points ever since. My suspicion is now that this has tipped them over the edge. I never thought much of it at the time as I was able to open 3 Halifax reward accounts in a single day last spring but evidently LBG have taken offence by this.

As it's likely an internal commercial decision, I would surmise it's a combination of the overdraft stoozing and the nine(?) current accounts opened within the space of a year (six of which were promptly switched away), in conjunction with a lack of holding any products from which they can profit (e.g. mortgage, credit cards), as well as perhaps not having a long-standing history.

Did they provide any possible avenue for you to potentially explain or appeal? It's terribly unfortunate when an institution makes a final decision of lifelong permanence, without prior warning or providing any form of recourse. At least Skipton BS sent a written notice of admonishment to those regularly depositing via 15+ different debit cards per month over an extended period.

Your experience with Barclays is even more perplexing considering you held the accounts for barely a month or so, and presumably, there was nothing to remotely suggest why they allowed the accounts to be opened, only to forcibly have them closed soon after.

Here is a copy of the letter I got from Halifax. It doesn't look like there's any way back.

I received a very similar letter from RBS after opening several RBS accounts just for switching purposes.  l am now banned from RBS and NatWest for life. 

At least they're letting you switch to a different bank. RBS wouldn't let me use the switching service and I had to visit a branch to collect the funds from my accounts. 

Compound_2

I suspect reason 1, not a profitable customer is most likely. There was an article recently about Lloyd's plan on this:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11609981/Lloyds-controversial-plan-10-million-loyal-customers-second-rate-service.html

When the original Halifax Reward was launched around 2009, people on could have several accounts. But then Halifax started to clamp down, including those with BOS versions. They required it to be main account, but this wasn't clearly defined and seemed to be enforced only with needing different DDs. I'm surprised the T&C now allow 3 accounts again. It might be appropriate to split 15K across 3 accounts, but it can be easy to see when people aren't really making monthly card purchases totalling £1500.

It think the data sharing here between Lloyds and BOS is disgraceful as they seprate legal entities, but I don't think non-LBG accounts should be affected.You can't see Lloyds accounts on BOS online banking like Halifax - do they plan to introduce this so you can see visually if you perhaps have too many current accounts?

The various regular savings accounts are 'fixed term' from the bank's point of view. Yes the customer can access funds as for a fixed rate ISA (and often their non-ISA fixed rate bond, sometimes having preferential rate). But for the bank not to honour the accounts till maturity seems like a breach of contract. You could consider pursuing them to FOS for the lost interest.

trient

Bridlington1 said:

I chose to be as open and honest as possible as I feel it is of far more use to other forumites to have all the facts in one place and it certainly helped me get to the bottom of this affair a lot quicker than if it had been one of those long and drawn out threads you often see on this forum, so I considered it a no brainer really.

Thanks for the heads up regarding Natwest group.

It looks like I am going to find it difficult to find donor accounts in future now.

Very kind and commendable of you to share so much detail. I would suggest TSB for donor accounts in the future - only one hard check per day (or was it month?) and you can open multiple accounts at once with no problem.

ForumUser7

trient said:

Bridlington1 said:

I chose to be as open and honest as possible as I feel it is of far more use to other forumites to have all the facts in one place and it certainly helped me get to the bottom of this affair a lot quicker than if it had been one of those long and drawn out threads you often see on this forum, so I considered it a no brainer really.

Thanks for the heads up regarding Natwest group.

It looks like I am going to find it difficult to find donor accounts in future now.

Very kind and commendable of you to share so much detail. I would suggest TSB for donor accounts in the future - only one hard check per day (or was it month?) and you can open multiple accounts at once with no problem.

@Bridlington1 is TSB’s resident technical gremlin - they could open multiple accounts at one, with problems 😟

datz

Bridlington1 said:

I was pretty quick with switching the accounts out. My activity with regards to current accounts are as follows:
BOS:
Account 1 opened 11/8/22, closed 2/9/22
Account 2 opened late August 2022 and is still open to this day. I switched my first Co-op account into it in October/November.
Account 3 opened 3/10/22, closed 12/12/22 (switched into my second Co-op account)
Account 4 opened in January 2023

Halifax:
Account 1 opened Aug 2019 and is first current account I ever opened and has remained with me to this day as my oldest account.
Accounts 2,3 and 4 opened in June 2022 and kept for Halifax reward
Account 5 opened 30/11/2022 and closed on 21/12/22 (switched to Santander so that I could get their student account after Barclays closed mine
Account 6 opened in January 2023 with the BOS one

Lloyds:
Account 1 opened in November 2021, still in use today
Account 2 opened 26/4/22, closed 25/5/22
Account 3 opened 8/8/22, closed 22/8/22
Account 4 opened in January 2023 with the BOS one

So in total 14 current accounts, of which 5 were switched out.

I opened 5 Club Lloyds savers in January 2023 as I have already mentioned earlier in this thread

I have also renewed and closed and reopened 2 Club Lloyds monthly savers, 2 Halifax regular savers, 2 BOS monthly savers and a Lloyds monthly saver in that time.

I chose to be as open and honest as possible as I feel it is of far more use to other forumites to have all the facts in one place and it certainly helped me get to the bottom of this affair a lot quicker than if it had been one of those long and drawn out threads you often see on this forum, so I considered it a no brainer really.

Thanks for the heads up regarding Natwest group.

It looks like I am going to find it difficult to find donor accounts in future now. Virgin doesn't seem to be that usable for opening donor accounts, I can't open a spare Santander account as I have their student account, Barclays is out the equation for the same reason, Virgin looks difficult to open a donor account, I can't switch out Co-op for another couple of months in case the FOS comes up trumps and awards me the £125 for switching a current account to Co-op. First Direct recently declined my application for a current account so presumably that rules out HSBC group as well. All I've feasibly got is Metro and the Natwest group left as donor accounts.

Luckily I do have a spare Natwest and a RBS account which could be utilised in the future though and I hoovered up all the switching incentives last year so it could be a while before they get used.

That doesn't seem as clear-cut as I was expecting. I mean there is a pattern of taking liberties there (over a single year period), but it's not that excessive. I know people that have taken advantage to a higher degree - granted this was a few years ago now, so maybe banks have been tightening up on what they consider abusive customers (which I would understand from a business perspective).

I have some doubts as to whether your account opening activity in January triggered the review, given that we are half way through March now. Not sure that those easy access savings accounts would be a factor either - as it's not that unusual for people to open multiple accounts in order to treat them as savings "pots" for different savings objectives. LBG even state limits on how many of each savings account they permit you to have (usually 5 of each type), and you did not exceed that. Your most recent account opening activity was those regular savers, but you are far from alone in doing that.

Perhaps something with your transactions?

Btw, I'll elaborate further on my Natwest group comment. When the Natwest group ejected me (start of the pandemic), it was shortly following a (successful) secondary current account application at Ulster Bank, so it was likely that which triggered their review for me, and their system closed my accounts across the whole group with no notice period. I can only pin that on a commercial decision, even though that usually includes a notice period. To this day I still have no idea what activity of mine their system objected to, because I had only used their accounts negligibly for their rewards and rarely opened new accounts there (only used one RBS and one Natwest account as donor accounts a couple of years prior). I keep copies of my applications, and there was nothing incorrect or out of place in that Ulster Bank one, and I did not have nor subsequently receive any adverse markers.

Bridlington1

trient said:

Bridlington1 said:

I chose to be as open and honest as possible as I feel it is of far more use to other forumites to have all the facts in one place and it certainly helped me get to the bottom of this affair a lot quicker than if it had been one of those long and drawn out threads you often see on this forum, so I considered it a no brainer really.

Thanks for the heads up regarding Natwest group.

It looks like I am going to find it difficult to find donor accounts in future now.

Very kind and commendable of you to share so much detail. I would suggest TSB for donor accounts in the future - only one hard check per day (or was it month?) and you can open multiple accounts at once with no problem.

As @ForumUser7 alluded to, TSB could be difficult. I opened 5 TSB spend & save accounts  on a single day in August and they've closed all of them, 4 within a couple of days and the 5th was closed in January shortly after I'd opened 3 TSB EA accounts in a single day. I still have a one surviving account with TSB but they haven't let me open another current account since so TSB is out the equation for now. 

Whilst I'm at it Nationwide won't let me open additional current accounts either so they're out of the equation so far as donor accounts are concerned.

datz said:

Bridlington1 said:

I was pretty quick with switching the accounts out. My activity with regards to current accounts are as follows:
BOS:
Account 1 opened 11/8/22, closed 2/9/22
Account 2 opened late August 2022 and is still open to this day. I switched my first Co-op account into it in October/November.
Account 3 opened 3/10/22, closed 12/12/22 (switched into my second Co-op account)
Account 4 opened in January 2023

Halifax:
Account 1 opened Aug 2019 and is first current account I ever opened and has remained with me to this day as my oldest account.
Accounts 2,3 and 4 opened in June 2022 and kept for Halifax reward
Account 5 opened 30/11/2022 and closed on 21/12/22 (switched to Santander so that I could get their student account after Barclays closed mine
Account 6 opened in January 2023 with the BOS one

Lloyds:
Account 1 opened in November 2021, still in use today
Account 2 opened 26/4/22, closed 25/5/22
Account 3 opened 8/8/22, closed 22/8/22
Account 4 opened in January 2023 with the BOS one

So in total 14 current accounts, of which 5 were switched out.

I opened 5 Club Lloyds savers in January 2023 as I have already mentioned earlier in this thread

I have also renewed and closed and reopened 2 Club Lloyds monthly savers, 2 Halifax regular savers, 2 BOS monthly savers and a Lloyds monthly saver in that time.

I chose to be as open and honest as possible as I feel it is of far more use to other forumites to have all the facts in one place and it certainly helped me get to the bottom of this affair a lot quicker than if it had been one of those long and drawn out threads you often see on this forum, so I considered it a no brainer really.

Thanks for the heads up regarding Natwest group.

It looks like I am going to find it difficult to find donor accounts in future now. Virgin doesn't seem to be that usable for opening donor accounts, I can't open a spare Santander account as I have their student account, Barclays is out the equation for the same reason, Virgin looks difficult to open a donor account, I can't switch out Co-op for another couple of months in case the FOS comes up trumps and awards me the £125 for switching a current account to Co-op. First Direct recently declined my application for a current account so presumably that rules out HSBC group as well. All I've feasibly got is Metro and the Natwest group left as donor accounts.

Luckily I do have a spare Natwest and a RBS account which could be utilised in the future though and I hoovered up all the switching incentives last year so it could be a while before they get used.

That doesn't seem as clear-cut as I was expecting. I mean there is a pattern of taking liberties there (over a single year period), but it's not that excessive. I know people that have taken advantage to a higher degree - granted this was a few years ago now, so maybe banks have been tightening up on what they consider abusive customers (which I would understand from a business perspective).

I have some doubts as to whether your account opening activity in January triggered the review, given that we are half way through March now. Not sure that those easy access savings accounts would be a factor either - as it's not that unusual for people to open multiple accounts in order to treat them as savings "pots" for different savings objectives. LBG even state limits on how many of each savings account they permit you to have (usually 5 of each type), and you did not exceed that. Your most recent account opening activity was those regular savers, but you are far from alone in doing that.

Perhaps something with your transactions?

Btw, I'll elaborate further on my Natwest group comment. When the Natwest group ejected me (start of the pandemic), it was shortly following a (successful) secondary current account application at Ulster Bank, so it was likely that which triggered their review for me, and their system closed my accounts across the whole group with no notice period. I can only pin that on a commercial decision, even though that usually includes a notice period. To this day I still have no idea what activity of mine their system objected to, because I had only used their accounts negligibly for their rewards and rarely opened new accounts there (only used one RBS and one Natwest account as donor accounts a couple of years prior). I keep copies of my applications, and there was nothing incorrect or out of place in that Ulster Bank one, and I did not have nor subsequently receive any adverse markers.

I suspect LBG are just starting to clamp down on us financial tarts and I have proved to be early on in the firing line. Time will tell though. LBG do seem to have been pretty lenient over the years so are possibly trying to rectify this.

I suspect the accounts being opened in January may have simply been the straw that broke the camel's back. With the exception of around £20-30 I stored in the savings account overnight due to me transferring just over £25k into it in January, I have not kept more than £1 in any of them for more than a few seconds. I have been bouncing £1 through each of them once per week to try and make them "active" for they YouGov points.

My transactions are quite frequent, on average I bounce just over £20k/mth through Lloyds as it's my nominated account for quite a few savings accounts. Even then they're all transfers to and from my other bank accounts (all UK accounts).

I did recently set up chip and linked it to Lloyds though. I have deposited just over £5k into it via open banking so unless this could have set something off?

I opened an Ulster account last month and have used Natwest and RBS solely for the reward accounts and digital regular savers. I did open a Natwest donor account last year which I switched to Lloyds so Natwest could be in jeapordy after all.

The thing that concerns me is that I don't think I'm a profitable customer for any of my banking providers. If the banks go closing my accounts simply because I'm unprofitable I won't have any accounts left at this rate.

masonic

dealyboy said:

masonic said:

dealyboy said:

"

Why choose our FlexDirect

• Get interest on your money

  5% AER (4.89% gross a year) in-credit interest fixed for 12 months on balances up to £1,500. You’ll need to pay in at least £1,000 a month, not counting transfers from other Nationwide accounts or Visa credits. After the first 12 months, it’s 0.25% AER (0.24% gross a year) variable. Interest is calculated on the last day of each month and is paid on the first day of the next month.

"

Consumer Rights Act 2015 Part 2.

62 Requirement for contract terms and notices to be fair

(1)An unfair term of a consumer contract is not binding on the consumer.

(2)An unfair consumer notice is not binding on the consumer.

(3)This does not prevent the consumer from relying on the term or notice if the consumer chooses to do so.

(4)A term is unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract to the detriment of the consumer.

The contractual term being discussed is fair because it is balanced in favour of the consumer. The consumer does not need to provide notice but the firm does. The consumer should rely on the term in the contract, because it is fair.

You seem to be confusing the term "term", which refers to a clause in an agreement with the "term" of an interest rate, which is the length of time that rate applies. If either party close an account while it is within a particular interest term, it is of no consequence, because there will be zero balance in the account upon which to earn interest. The rate will be unchanged.

5% AER (4.89% gross a year) in-credit interest fixed for 12 months on balances up to £1,500.

I would contend that any variation in this term by a financial services company to the detriment of the consumer is unfair if it is not correlated with a breach by the consumer.

I would expect the consumer to be compensated to be put in the same position as he/she/they would have been had they completed the duration of the term.

As I have said I would not expect this to happen as a financial services company would not wish to be in conflict with the FCA Principle 6.

"Customers' interests

... A firm must pay due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly."

It is not a variation of a contractual term. It is the interest rate that is fixed, not the length of time the account must remain open. It is not a fixed term account, and can be closed by either party at any time, subject to the clauses in the contract around closure. There is no requirement for that account to remain open for any minimum length of time at all. There is also no right to interest on money that is no longer held in the account.

This is fair treatment in accord with Principle 6 because the customer is given reasonable notice in which to make alternative arrangements if the bank chooses to end the relationship, whereas the customer can do so without giving any notice.

I can assure you that this will have been unsuccessfully tested many times. Customers do not like having their accounts closed, and some complain. The FCA would prevent an unfair clause being put into banking consumer contracts, yet all banks have the clause giving either party the right to end a banking relationship.

Nationwide have closed people's FlexDirect accounts within the 5% interest period in the past and are at liberty to do so in the future. If you behave yourself and don't do things that make you perceived as a risk to them, this is not something you need to worry about. While they don't need to give you a reason, they don't go around closing accounts for no reason.