UC Managed Migration

HillStreetBlues

calcotti said:

HillStreetBlues said:. 

They wouldn't be worse off on the day it transferred, but if they have TP they would be worse of when benefits uplifted in April, than if they were still on original benefits. 

Which is why OP has been advised to wait until mid April before applying for UC. They will be protected on the day of transfer.

Yes, I know, I was one that advised the OP to wait.

HillStreetBlues said:

Can't comment on your circumstances but whatever you do  wait until the benefits rates are uplifted in April  before you apply for UC.
Any transitional financial protection will last longer if you wait.
(That is unless you are better off on UC)

calcotti

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct that UC bars workout for the self employed because the MIF doesn’t account of variable earnings. You will be exempt for 12 months.

ElwoodBlues

calcotti said:

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct that UC bars workout for the self employed because the MIF doesn’t account of variable earnings. You will be exempt for 12 months.

I think I saw somewhere that the MIF 12 month exemption is for new start ups only (I've been trading for several years), and that it it's not allowed for managed migrations?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/1152/regulation/6

calcotti

ElwoodBlues said:

I think I saw somewhere that the MIF 12 month exemption is for new start ups only (I've been trading for several years), and that it it's not allowed for managed migrations?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/1152/regulation/6

The 12 month ‘start up’ period applies to anybody starting a UC claim.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/63

HillStreetBlues

poppy12345 said:

I can't remember how the benefits uplift works with UC and when it would be included from. I remember last years uplift my daughter didn't see that increase until her payment on 24th May, which was for AP 18th April to 17th May.

As like your daughters I think it's the next period after the increase.

Under ESA my uplift would have been  last week in April,  now under UC it's the 7th June, not that I'm getting any increase this year.

calcotti

The uplift for for UC applies to the assessment which starts on or after the relevant date (the first Monday after 6th April which I think is 10h April).

ElwoodBlues

calcotti said:

ElwoodBlues said:

I think I saw somewhere that the MIF 12 month exemption is for new start ups only (I've been trading for several years), and that it it's not allowed for managed migrations?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/1152/regulation/6

The 12 month ‘start up’ period applies to anybody starting a UC claim.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/63

Yes, but at the bottom of that page is a link to the one I posted above, which states:

Regulation 59 (minimum income floor not to apply for first 12 months) of the Universal Credit (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2014 F2 is revoked.

Which reads to me as though the right to be exempt from the MIF for first 12 months is revoked under the transitional protection provisions?

So you either claim without TP and get entitlement to the 12 month exemption or claim with TP (to get the top up entitled to) and forfeit the MIF exemption?

calcotti

There have even so many amendments that it is almost impossible to follow all the changes and many revisions have been made and then revised again.

There will be the 12 month ‘start up’ from when you claim UC. 

See the link I provided to the consolidated regulation

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/63

You get the 12 month date from the date when DWP determine that you are self employed, they can’t determine that until you apply for UC.

ElwoodBlues

Another concern I have - how does UC take into account opening stock or work in progress at the beginning of my claim? I can see that stock purchased in a UC Assessment Period is deducted from 'my' profits, which makes sense but I can't see anything mentioned about stock in hand at the beginning of the UC claim?

I've recently taken an order to supply £13000 of hardware (this is pretty exceptional, my biggest hardware order in 6 years). The hardware cost to 'me' is £9000. I took delivery of it this week so it will be invoiced and paid for by my company within the next 30 days. I've agreed terms with my customer for staged payment of the 13k between May and October.

As advised above, I should avoid starting my UC claim until after the April uplift of Tax credits has been applied. So when my UC claim begins I'll have 9k of extra stock/WIP that has already been paid for and won't feature in any UC AP. But all of the sales revenue payments will show up in upcoming APs, so UC will UC consider that as 100% profit for my UC calculation?

Unless they somehow include my purchase costs, it'll look like I've made 13k profit, when clearly it's only actually 5k. This seems grossly unfair, and the timing for me personally is absolutely lousy, really couldn't be any worse.

(I appreciate these figures might look large to some people, especially others in receipt of benefits, but remember it's turnover and gross profit and not even my money - it's owned by the company, I only withdraw a modest salary. This 5k gross profit will be reduced by the working costs - there's at least 3 weeks of full time work setting up and installing it, plus over 1000 miles of travelling around customer sites, and going forward 3 years of onsite warranty and tech support to factor in. All things considered, I'm barely going to be making a profit on this job, it's more about customer retention.)

huckster

@ElwoodBlues

Unfortunately, some forms of self employment do not really fit the way UC works.  

  As you state, UC cannot consider your business accounts before you started the claim.  For each monthly assessment period during the 12 month start up period, it will be the net profit for the month that would be used to calculate the UC award. 

Don't forget that you can include any PAYE amounts as an expense when you complete the self employment income and expenses information each month.

After the 12 month start up period, the minimum income floor based on 35 hours at national minimum wage ( assuming you are not primary care of children under 13 or carer for a disabled period)  would apply.  Taking into account the increased NMW rate from April 2023, this would mean that you would be looking at assumed net self employed earnings of about £1400 per month.