Berkeley centre Sheffield

Albert_Arkwright

Interesting that they have no record of his "appeal", as they only let you do it on their website unless you have the forethought to take a screenshot then you have nothing, another of their little nasty methods to make it harder for the consumer to prove things.

I am still waiting for my sar which i requested a copy of the information i gave them.

It would have had the 10mins on the signage when my partner parked there otherwise i don't see any way they can win, "on arrival" just to ambiguous.

Coupon-mad

Albert_Arkwright said:

The three threads about this site/company seem to have gone to sleep.

After contacted both the mp's for the site constitueny and my own's.
Paul Blomfield's office (the sites MP) replied;

Thank you for your e-mail to Mr Blomfield. 

You’ll not be surprised to know that we receive many complaints from constituents who are facing fines from various parking companies across Sheffield, so we share your frustrations with the way that many operate. The rules are not always intuitive or fair and are punitively administered but this seems to be the business model of the companies who ensure that they operate within the framework of the law. We have recently made representations to Excel Parking on behalf of constituents but they do not always respond. 

Back in October of last year, the Government was asked when the Parking Code of Practice arising from the Act will come into effect and in response they said:  

‘The Private Parking Code of Practice has been temporarily withdrawn to review the decisions to introduce new levels of private parking charges and to ban additional fees that are currently added on top of the late or unpaid parking charge. While I am not able to confirm when the Code will be reissued, I would like to reassure my honourable friend that my department continues to work with industry and consumer groups to do this as quickly as possible. We are committed to reissuing a Code that provides both the best possible protection for motorists and enables effective management of parking.’  

The issue has been pursued subsequently and more recently, Labour MP, Rachael Maskell, asked:  

‘To ask the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, whether he has made an assessment of the potential impact of parking companies charging for parking using mobile technology on people who do not have access to this technology; and whether he will take steps to require alternate payment methods to be made available.’  

In response, the Government said: 

‘The Government is taking action to improve the regulation of the private parking industry. My department is currently implementing the Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019, including the development of an independent Code of Practice that sets out straightforward rules that private parking companies must follow.’  

Paul was about to ask a further question when he saw that his Labour colleague Karin Smyth had done so on 28 February and was given this dismissive response.  

It’s frustrating to see the that the Government are unable to provide a clear timeframe for when the Parking Act will be implemented. As a result, many parking companies will continue their poor practices.  

Obviously, it will be for Gill as your MP to deal with your individual case. 

Yours sincerely 

(Removed by Forum Team)

Office Manager & Senior Caseworker

Office of Paul Blomfield

MP for Sheffield Central

My own's MP's office commented on receiving many complaints about the parking companies and offered to help in this case (writing to EXCEL) saying it sometimes may help, I didn't take up as i really feel that if it did make a difference then it shouldn't have, it's not what i consider an MP's role is. I replied saying so and what I am petitioning for is her representation in parliament to address the legislation which these parasites use to unfairly scam people. 

Her reply;
Dear Miss xxxxxxxx, 

Thank you for clarifying that, I will ask my colleagues in Westminster to review your case and seek opportunities to raise this in Parliament. Should an opportunity arise in the future they may be in touch with you further to discuss your concerns. 

I note that you will keep us updated with the progress of your court case, thank you in advance for this.
 

Kind Regards.
xxxxxxxxxxx

Unfortunately as both labour party MP's they can't really make much difference, they would be politically opposed to the government and it's up to present giving more assistance to the scammers than control any way.

The Minister has said in a letter in April that the Public Consultation and draft Impact Assessment is expected to be published before Summer Recess.

i.e. July.

We are eagerly anticipating the final Consultation.

https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/39166/documents/192661/default/

You might want to show your MPs office that letter.

Snakes_Belly

In August 2018 the signage was VCS in October 2022 it was Excel so at some time in that period the signage changed. Did the landowner contract change?

It would be interesting to see the landowner contract. If the landowner contract is still with VCS then they have not got landowner authority to sue in the name of Excel. 

Snakes_Belly

In 2021 a forum member was taken to court by VCS for a transgression in this car park. The signage was Excel. 

I can think that there only reason for doing that is that the landowner is with VCS. VCS and Excel are operated by the same directors however they are separate legal entities as defined in Saloman v Saloman and Co Limited.

Albert_Arkwright

Snakes_Belly said:

In August 2018 the signage was VCS in October 2022 it was Excel so at some time in that period the signage changed. Did the landowner contract change?

It would be interesting to see the landowner contract. If the landowner contract is still with VCS then they have not got landowner authority to sue in the name of Excel. 

The only contract i have seen was with EXCEL as per all the signage now, VCS were claimed to be a sister company but the Judge threw the case out as they were legally separate.

The landowner is a tough one though, A_Nony_Mouse said:

Also, I've just requested the freehold title deed for the berkeley precinct (SYK280456) - It lists the following as the registered owners, since 1997?

ANLEY TRUSTEES LIMITED

65 Holborn Viaduct, London EC1A 2DY

MAISON ANLEY PROPERTY NOMINEE LIMITED

65 Holborn Viaduct, London EC1A 2DY

A thread you have also contributed, the copy of the contract was with a company T.H. real Estate. The building of the address above was knocked down a few years ago so not much help.
Its difficult because its tangled inside various companies within companies that keep changing names this;
 https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09624720
and 
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08565143
Also what will the judge accept as owner of the land - will he accept the management company have the legal right to do as they will being empowered with management control? 
It doesn't even look like LSH manage this property any more;

n0rth123 said:

I tried to contact the landowner but was forwarded to Workman PLC which seems to be a company that manages the site. A senior associate picked up my complaint but basically agreed with the charge - this is what she said:

"Please note, LSH no longer manage the above site, the above site is now managed by Workman LLP. I have looked into your query below, and it was noted that you purchased via connect 30 minutes after entry. The signs states tickets must be purchased upon arrival.
I am aware that you have appealed to the IAS (Independent Appeals Service) and they have also declined your appeal on this occasion."

Basically I need to ask for evidence there was a contract between EXCEL and the "land owner" and proof of ownership of the land by this owner. As i presume i won't be able to see it before it's shown in court it's a question of whether the judge is satisfied it's enough to cosider it to be legal.

Albert_Arkwright

Coupon-mad said:

The Minister has said in a letter in April that the Public Consultation and draft Impact Assessment is expected to be published before Summer Recess.

i.e. July.

We are eagerly anticipating the final Consultation.

https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/39166/documents/192661/default/

You might want to show your MPs office that letter.

Thank I will pass on although as neighbouring constituents of the same party they will no doubt talk a lot, it's an old local thing but seeing that MP's name makes me cringe some, i'll be making a pact with Beelzebub next.

Fruitcake

When you ask for a parking contract, always say "with or flowing from the landowner." Often a PPC will have a contract with a managing agent, so what you are asking for in effect is also a copy of the contract between the landowner and the managing agent to prove that said agent is authorised to emply a PPC that has the right to issue charges and court claims.

I think this is the thread about the case where the parking contract (signs) said Excel but VCS brought the claim. Note this thread is about a hundred pages long.

Help, got until 24th November to submit Defence for VCS — MoneySavingExpert Forum

There was a copy of a letter in that thread that unfortunately is no longer available, but it was about a contract signed by Simon Renshaw Smith on behalf of Excel and K Brindley on behalf of Lambert Smith Hampton. The letter contract was dated the 28th of September 2018.

The owner of the Berkley Centre appears to have been a Mr Greg Barraclough of Lambert Smith Hampton in 2018/2019.

This page from the above thread has the broken link to the letter about the contract, and my post immediately after it refers to the contents of the letter. I'll see if the Wayback machine can unpick the broken link.

Help, got until 24th November to submit Defence for VCS - Page 11 — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Albert_Arkwright

Had a sar back, apart from the message I initially put on their web site its all the stuff i already had. I asked for logs for this machine which i didn't get or any explanation why. I have to say I doubt it would be of any use as it will no doubt say £0 paid at x:xx time for the first ticket and £1 at x:xx time for the second, if it didn't register the coin then it wouldn't show on the log.
As said when I went back 4 weeks it was out of action, I doubt the have to tell me anything other than her ticket info and will quote data protection for other registrations. Perhaps for court evidence I can ask if any other consumer has complained that money not registered, no doubt they will say they have no record of such, one for the court record if any other case comes to light.
Should I pursue the logs? Any body ever seen any?

If you check their sign - the part where it says "if there is a fault with the machine phone our helpline" which is what contravention they are claiming, it isn't in the T&C section so can it be used as such or is it the fact it is on the sign make it a relevant condition? There isn't any condition in the T&C section about any action necessary to comply in event of machine nicking your coin.
I will of course still maintain it's their burden to prove initial payment was not made.

A side point, about a week after the initial email to their data department I sent using her email address she started getting loads of scam emails ( and still does) didn't think too much of it as they could have got the address from anywhere. After a few weeks without reply I sent it again, this time I forgot to change it to her email address and by default it went in mine, sure enough about a week later I started getting the same scam emails, we don't use both emails with many places just bank, ebay, facebook so it was pretty conclusive if not provable where the scammers got the addresses from, nasty nasty people.
No doubt they check the internet especially this site for threads about themselves.

Snakes_Belly

I have seen logs from the Excel debacle at Backester Lane and Gresley Row in Lichfield but none for my case even though the judge at the first hearing asked for them.

The logs I have seen were not very conclusive and there was a possibility that one log had been tampered with. It's not the first time either than this has happened. It has happened before and Excel did appeal that particular hearing and were refused the appeal by a Circuit Judge.

Coupon-mad

Should I pursue the logs? Any body ever seen any?

Yes. Read Excel v Ambler, LOL!

Here is the Excel v Ambler thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5869594/court-report-excel-spanked-at-skipton/p5

Link to the transcript
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v1xdk8n8xdglddg/Ambler%20appeal%20Judgement%20p1.jpg?dl=0