Berkeley centre Sheffield

A_Nony_Mouse

Coupon-mad said:

Clearly an unfair term set up purely to trip people up.  Offends against the doctrines of good faith and open dealing that the CRA 2015 is based on and we usually point to clauses 6, 10 and 14 of Schedule 2 (the 'grey list' of terms that are likely to be unfair).

Brilliant work as always @Coupon-mad


Would in this situation, it also include Clause 5?

"A term which has the object or effect of requiring that, where the consumer decides not to conclude or perform the contract, the consumer must pay the trader a disproportionately high sum in compensation or for services which have not been supplied."

Forcing the customer to pay for the 1-2 hour parking tariff, on the off chance that they may use it with no option to reclaim the payment for services which have not been supplied if they only use the 1 hour free parking, surely fits exactly into this.

Also, 20c?

imposing on the consumer a burden of proof which, according to the applicable law, should lie with another party to the contract.

They made no effort to prove from the vehicle registration logs that these had not been paid.  Only demanded the consumers prove that they had.

Snakes_Belly

It seems as if the driver initially paid for two hours but did not realise until return that the machine had only given a ticket for one hour. They then bought a ticket for two hours and left within the two hours. 

Driver has paid for two hours and not breached the maximum stay limit of two hours. Excel's gripe is that they did not pay for the two hours on entry to the car park. Driver's claim is that they did pay but payment was not recorded.

It sounds as if there are issues with the calibration of the ticket machine very similar to PPL's pound eating machines. I would look for similar issues with this car park.

Excel's signage is also like War and Peace, full of small font and a driver is unlikely to be able to read it all in the time allowed. 

I think that the OP would have to be very unlucky in the DJ lottery. 


  

Snakes_Belly

There is a lot of comments about this car park on google and other sites including drivers who have paid. 

One article was particularly interesting as the landowner contract for the Berkeley Centre appears to be with VCS not Excel. Although these companies are owned by the same director legally they are separate entities. They may have updated the contract but it will be worth checking it out when they send the WS. You could ask for it before but I doubt that they will send it.

"He said: “Somebody has managed to get hold of the contract between VCS and the landowner which stipulates two hours free parking."

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/transport/judge-throws-out-fines-issued-notorious-sheffield-car-park-1378720

Coupon-mad

A_Nony_Mouse said:

Coupon-mad said:

Clearly an unfair term set up purely to trip people up.  Offends against the doctrines of good faith and open dealing that the CRA 2015 is based on and we usually point to clauses 6, 10 and 14 of Schedule 2 (the 'grey list' of terms that are likely to be unfair).

Brilliant work as always @Coupon-mad


Would in this situation, it also include Clause 5?

"A term which has the object or effect of requiring that, where the consumer decides not to conclude or perform the contract, the consumer must pay the trader a disproportionately high sum in compensation or for services which have not been supplied."

Forcing the customer to pay for the 1-2 hour parking tariff, on the off chance that they may use it with no option to reclaim the payment for services which have not been supplied if they only use the 1 hour free parking, surely fits exactly into this.

Also, 20c?

imposing on the consumer a burden of proof which, according to the applicable law, should lie with another party to the contract.

They made no effort to prove from the vehicle registration logs that these had not been paid.  Only demanded the consumers prove that they had.

Yes, good finds!

Le_Kirk

Snakes_Belly said:

There is a lot of comments about this car park on google and other sites including drivers who have paid. 

One article was particularly interesting as the landowner contract for the Berkeley Centre appears to be with VCS not Excel. Although these companies are owned by the same director legally they are separate entities. They may have updated the contract but it will be worth checking it out when they send the WS. You could ask for it before but I doubt that they will send it.

"He said: “Somebody has managed to get hold of the contract between VCS and the landowner which stipulates two hours free parking."

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/transport/judge-throws-out-fines-issued-notorious-sheffield-car-park-1378720

In the article they refer to fines, summons and prosecution; don't journalists do any research these days?

Albert_Arkwright

Snakes_Belly said:

There is a lot of comments about this car park on google and other sites including drivers who have paid. 

One article was particularly interesting as the landowner contract for the Berkeley Centre appears to be with VCS not Excel. Although these companies are owned by the same director legally they are separate entities. They may have updated the contract but it will be worth checking it out when they send the WS. You could ask for it before but I doubt that they will send it.

"He said: “Somebody has managed to get hold of the contract between VCS and the landowner which stipulates two hours free parking."

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/transport/judge-throws-out-fines-issued-notorious-sheffield-car-park-1378720

I think you or they had it the wrong way around, there was a case that was took to court for a claim being made by vcs but the contract (2018) was with excel, a mistake they haven't made this time all claims have been made in the company name excel.
The contract available on the internet does state "0-1 hour free" and "1-2 hours £1" which would be a two consecutive contracts not "0-1 hour free" or "0-2 hours £1" being a choice of either contract as they claim and on their sign. The difference to me is that the excel/ LSH contract gives the choice of entering the second contract at the end of the first, it only starts after 1 hour.

On the principle of the term being fare in the last year alone there is 14 or so google reviewers who have been hit with this claim saying they think not, that's more than a jury!  , still need to convince the judge though.

Albert_Arkwright

some more EXCEL fans.

https://www.facebook.com/onlinesheffield/photos/a.679981832030695/6635006856528133?comment_id=725716142581531&notif_id=1678877483230863&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif

Snakes_Belly

When you look back on Google maps the signage looks like VCS signage but now is Excel signage. It will be interesting to see what the contract with the landowner looks like. They have been known to do a "switcheroo".

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3691962,-1.4939324,3a,75y,105.16h,87.14t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1DtwzWVcVwMB-Y9-CaS0Lw!2e0!5s20170701T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Albert_Arkwright

The three threads about this site/company seem to have gone to sleep.

After contacted both the mp's for the site constitueny and my own's.
Paul Blomfield's office (the sites MP) replied;

Thank you for your e-mail to Mr Blomfield. 

You’ll not be surprised to know that we receive many complaints from constituents who are facing fines from various parking companies across Sheffield, so we share your frustrations with the way that many operate. The rules are not always intuitive or fair and are punitively administered but this seems to be the business model of the companies who ensure that they operate within the framework of the law. We have recently made representations to Excel Parking on behalf of constituents but they do not always respond. 

Back in October of last year, the Government was asked when the Parking Code of Practice arising from the Act will come into effect and in response they said:  

‘The Private Parking Code of Practice has been temporarily withdrawn to review the decisions to introduce new levels of private parking charges and to ban additional fees that are currently added on top of the late or unpaid parking charge. While I am not able to confirm when the Code will be reissued, I would like to reassure my honourable friend that my department continues to work with industry and consumer groups to do this as quickly as possible. We are committed to reissuing a Code that provides both the best possible protection for motorists and enables effective management of parking.’  

The issue has been pursued subsequently and more recently, Labour MP, Rachael Maskell, asked:  

‘To ask the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, whether he has made an assessment of the potential impact of parking companies charging for parking using mobile technology on people who do not have access to this technology; and whether he will take steps to require alternate payment methods to be made available.’  

In response, the Government said: 

‘The Government is taking action to improve the regulation of the private parking industry. My department is currently implementing the Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019, including the development of an independent Code of Practice that sets out straightforward rules that private parking companies must follow.’  

Paul was about to ask a further question when he saw that his Labour colleague Karin Smyth had done so on 28 February and was given this dismissive response.  

It’s frustrating to see the that the Government are unable to provide a clear timeframe for when the Parking Act will be implemented. As a result, many parking companies will continue their poor practices.  

Obviously, it will be for Gill as your MP to deal with your individual case. 

Yours sincerely 

(Removed by Forum Team)

Office Manager & Senior Caseworker

Office of Paul Blomfield

MP for Sheffield Central

My own's MP's office commented on receiving many complaints about the parking companies and offered to help in this case (writing to EXCEL) saying it sometimes may help, I didn't take up as i really feel that if it did make a difference then it shouldn't have, it's not what i consider an MP's role is. I replied saying so and what I am petitioning for is her representation in parliament to address the legislation which these parasites use to unfairly scam people. 

Her reply;
Dear Miss xxxxxxxx, 

Thank you for clarifying that, I will ask my colleagues in Westminster to review your case and seek opportunities to raise this in Parliament. Should an opportunity arise in the future they may be in touch with you further to discuss your concerns. 

I note that you will keep us updated with the progress of your court case, thank you in advance for this.
 

Kind Regards.
xxxxxxxxxxx

Unfortunately as both labour party MP's they can't really make much difference, they would be politically opposed to the government and it's up to present giving more assistance to the scammers than control any way.

Snakes_Belly

https://www.thestar.co.uk/business/excel-parking-ends-secret-time-rule-that-caught-out-drivers-at-berkeley-centre-in-sheffield-4164352?fbclid=IwAR31J0bqyDF96g5x5YzgIEoXDsuFntkyAVLApuIouOvlMw7Iv4AZxOwiuzI