Smart Meter

debitcardmayhem

MikeJXE said:

I'm in the same boat as the OP I don't want a smart meter ether and I have my own reasons, I fail to see how it could benefit me and I also see all the complications that are posted on here. I don't need any of that, I am happy as I am reading my meter once a week, sticking it on a spreadsheet and sending my supplier readings every month, i do direct debit and in credit all is good for me 

I also understand tou tariffs but don't see any benefit for me but I can see benefits for others 

Ok for if you have solar which I can't have or could afford, neither do I want an EV

Once most people have smart meters whats stopping the energy supplier choosing you a tariff that only gives you a high rate when they know you mostly use your energy and a low rate when you don't use any. ? 

The energy companies will have enough data to make sure they are profitable, why would they want to give you a low tariff when they know you can't do without the energy at a certain time ? 

What's to stop the energy company inflating the rate for overnight charging of your EV 

IMO the energy company will be in complete control of how much you pay no matter how much you use. 

Probably because you are in charge of your appliances , if it's on it's using it, They can't make you use it at certain times.The government is pushing smart meters with ads suggesting you can save money. but no matter before smart meters you are the one in charge of the on/off switch. As for smart bulbs etc  how much do they save after the cost of buying I dunno but I don't expect to live long enough to re-coup the cost of smart 5 watt bulbs and their hub or whatever. 

matt_drummer

MikeJXE said:

The energy companies will have enough data to make sure they are profitable, why would they want to give you a low tariff when they know you can't do without the energy at a certain time ? 

What's to stop the energy company inflating the rate for overnight charging of your EV 

IMO the energy company will be in complete control of how much you pay no matter how much you use. 

To make sure the non smart meter consumers don't miss out they will just charge them the highest rate at any time.

You have it the wrong way around, consumers with smart meters will not be penalised, it will be those without that pay the most per unit of energy, it's already like this.

Cheaper off peak tariffs exist because electricity generation is higher at certain times than demand, they want to encourage use when the have excess electricity.

Ideally, demand would match supply throughout a 24 hour period, tou tariffs are aimed at helping achieve this.

[Deleted User]

Will all consumers end up with smart meters - the answer is ‘yes’

Suppliers already have the legal right to fit smart meters when existing meters reach their end of their certification period, so it is only a question of time. However, as we reach the rollout end date, I would expect the Government of any colour - to make smart meters mandatory as is the case now in most other countries.

Indeed, our nearest neighbour, France,  has gone further for those who oppose smart meters:

The charge will be €8.30 every two months. This equals €49.80 per year. Up to 3.8 million people could be affected. The change was confirmed in a government statement, after a decision from energy commission la Commission de régulation de l'énergie. 

The charge is expected to increase each year.

Time-of-use tariffs are not the money-making scheme that the tabloid press would have people believe. The Press chooses to look at the high end of any ToU tariff and it rarely mentions that consumers were being PAID 6p/kWh to use energy earlier this week. I am on Tracker gas, for example, and my unit price has been 6p/kWh or lower for the last 12 months. There is now a waiting list to go onto Tracker Electricity. Octopus Agile tariff prices for today are as follows:

In the coming year, we will see a lot more ToU tariffs emerging. They might include, for example, a tariff that offers a much lower unit price if consumers agree to a power limit (kW) during peak periods of the day. The lower the agreed peak power limit, the lower the unit cost.

With respect to those who cannot see the benefit of smart meters, you are choosing to look at the market as it is not what it will become.

So how do I choose the cheapest tariff for my annual usage? Do I compare monthly DD payments or annual usage entered into a price comparison website? The answer is you do neither. 

You allow a price comparison website to retrieve 12 months’ worth of usage data from your smart meter in 30 minute usage blocks. The comparison service then uses this data to determine the cheapest tariff based on not just how much you use but when you use it. The ‘tool’ also allows you to see what savings might be made if some usage was moved to a cheaper period in the day.

Why would people want to pay more for their energy than they need to do?

matt_drummer

[Deleted User] said:

Why would people want to pay more for their energy than they need to do?

Many reasons are given.

To avoid being spied on.
The IHD stops working or doesn't show the correct cost
Smart meters are nothing but trouble, all you here is complaints about problems
I am capable of reading my own meters
Not wanting their power cut or limited against their will
My personal favorite - if it aint broke don't fixt it!

The list goes on and on!

MikeyPGT

I think a lot of the problem with the smart meter roll out boils down to a total lack of trust in the energy 'suppliers'.  Customers have seen unjustified increases in direct debit, customer service is generally apalling, newspapers splash the 'huge' profits being made and smug CEOs happily trouser their bonuses.  Personally - despite the fact that my prepayment smart meter consistently shows that I am an extra £200 more in credit than I actually am - I can see the benefits, but do think that the whole sector need a major reboot. 

seront

[Deleted User] said:

Elysa said:

Hi
Can anyone advise me please.
My Electric supplier (Scottish Power) keeps asking me to have a Smart meter fitted.  I don’t want one.  Now they have sent me a letter saying my Electric meter is over 15 years old and is dangerous.  My electric meter is only just 11 years old and is fine.
Does anyone please have any ideas what I can do.  (If I look at switching supplier, I believe most want you to have a smart meter, I could be wrong?).
Many thanks in advance..

A supplier has a legal right to replace an end-of-life meter with a smart meter WITHOUT the consumer’s consent.

The certificated life starts from the date that meter was manufactured not when it was fitted so it is possible it could have spent 4 years in a warehouse. 

Your meter isn’t dangerous but it may may not be recording your usage accurately. Suppliers cannot legally bill you if your meter has passed its certificated life.

Your claim that the supplier has a legal right to replace an old meter with a smart meter is NOT true. The actual legal position is:-

"When it comes to smart meters, it is up to the customer if they want one installed or not. 

Therefore, even if an energy firm is fixing or replacing an old energy meter, it's still up to the customer if they want a smart meter.

If an energy meter stops working, or needs to be replaced, the energy provider is responsible for fixing the problem or providing a replacement. "

It does not matter what the reason why a person does not want a smart meter. They are not legally obliged to have them.

[Deleted User]

seront said:

[Deleted User] said:

Elysa said:

Hi
Can anyone advise me please.
My Electric supplier (Scottish Power) keeps asking me to have a Smart meter fitted.  I don’t want one.  Now they have sent me a letter saying my Electric meter is over 15 years old and is dangerous.  My electric meter is only just 11 years old and is fine.
Does anyone please have any ideas what I can do.  (If I look at switching supplier, I believe most want you to have a smart meter, I could be wrong?).
Many thanks in advance..

A supplier has a legal right to replace an end-of-life meter with a smart meter WITHOUT the consumer’s consent.

The certificated life starts from the date that meter was manufactured not when it was fitted so it is possible it could have spent 4 years in a warehouse. 

Your meter isn’t dangerous but it may may not be recording your usage accurately. Suppliers cannot legally bill you if your meter has passed its certificated life.

Your claim that the supplier has a legal right to replace an old meter with a smart meter is NOT true. The actual legal position is:-

"When it comes to smart meters, it is up to the customer if they want one installed or not. 

Therefore, even if an energy firm is fixing or replacing an old energy meter, it's still up to the customer if they want a smart meter.

If an energy meter stops working, or needs to be replaced, the energy provider is responsible for fixing the problem or providing a replacement. "

It does not matter what the reason why a person does not want a smart meter. They are not legally obliged to have them.

And the actual legal position on end-of-life meters is taken from which source with date?

BEIS agreed a change to the policy on end-of-life meters in 2019.

[Deleted User]

Reputable sources of information such as SmartMe disagree with your interpretation of the actual legal position:

And from this very website:

Are all these sources wrong?

wild666

Elysa said:

Hi
Can anyone advise me please.
My Electric supplier (Scottish Power) keeps asking me to have a Smart meter fitted.  I don’t want one.  Now they have sent me a letter saying my Electric meter is over 15 years old and is dangerous.  My electric meter is only just 11 years old and is fine.
Does anyone please have any ideas what I can do.  (If I look at switching supplier, I believe most want you to have a smart meter, I could be wrong?).
Many thanks in advance..

Unless they claim it has come to its end of life usage, normally the period it is certified for, them any letter, email, phone call saying anything else can be ignored. Even when a meter has passed the certification period it can still give very accurate readings for years or decades afterwards as can be seen by the number of analogue meters still giving readings in ft.3 rather than M3 

Spoonie_Turtle

wild666 said:

Elysa said:

Hi
Can anyone advise me please.
My Electric supplier (Scottish Power) keeps asking me to have a Smart meter fitted.  I don’t want one.  Now they have sent me a letter saying my Electric meter is over 15 years old and is dangerous.  My electric meter is only just 11 years old and is fine.
Does anyone please have any ideas what I can do.  (If I look at switching supplier, I believe most want you to have a smart meter, I could be wrong?).
Many thanks in advance..

Unless they claim it has come to its end of life usage, normally the period it is certified for, them any letter, email, phone call saying anything else can be ignored. Even when a meter has passed the certification period it can still give very accurate readings for years or decades afterwards as can be seen by the number of analogue meters still giving readings in ft.3 rather than M3 

Certification for gas meters and electricity meters seems to be different.  There's no gas equivalent of the schedule 4 for certification of electricity meters.

A supplier legally cannot bill against an expired meter, although I'm sure this must already have been mentioned in the thread.  So either they have to replace the meter or stop supplying it - I wonder which of those options any rational person would choose …