Smart Meter

_Sam_

[Deleted User] said:

In what is becoming an almost daily debate on meter certification and end-of-life, I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that consumers have a legal right to buy their own meter.

’ Yes you can own your own gas and/or electricity meters as long as the meter is of an approved type. It can only be installed with your suppliers knowledge and must be installed by a qualified person. In electrcity this means the party your supplier has appointed as the Meter Operator to your meter point. Once installed the meters become part of the fixtures of the house and would have to be left in place when you move.’ 

Credit @spiro 2008

I doubt that in practice it is simple to arrange. 

This is interesting, I remember reading a thread on this forum about certain brands of smart meters being notoriously faulty, so for example if consumer finds out the supplier is planning to install one of these brands could consumer say no thank you I would rather pay and get a good quality meter (providing they don't cost an arm and a leg!)

Qyburn

Elysa said:

Thank you for your comments, I have only heard negative things about the smart meters and just don’t like the idea of them. I also heard you get charged different rates for the electricity which includes industrial rates…

Your rate will only change if you choose to switch tariff. The Smart Meter gives more choice, but if you don't actively take up any of these options your rate will remain unchanged.

Keep_pedalling

Elysa said:

Thank you for your comments, I have only heard negative things about the smart meters and just don’t like the idea of them. I also heard you get charged different rates for the electricity which includes industrial rates…🤷‍♀️

Where did you hear that nonsense? No you won’t be put on commercial rates although you may be offered some optional time of day tariffs that may save you some money. Certainly saves me a considerable amount as an EV owner.

[Deleted User]

Qyburn said:

[Deleted User] said:

In what is becoming an almost daily debate on meter certification and end-of-life, I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that consumers have a legal right to buy their own meter.

It requires the Supplier's permission, not just with their knowledge. See the Electricity Act 1989 Schedule 7 (2) and note the clause starts "If the authorised supplier agrees, the meter may be provided by the customer"

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/schedule/7

From the Meter Operators Association Guide:

‘The requirement is enshrined in the revisions to the Electricity Act 1989, which now states: “An authorised supplier may refuse to allow one of his customers to provide a meter only if there are reasonable grounds for his refusal.” Customers procuring their own meters has been normal practice for larger electricity customers operating with half hourly meters since 1994. It is becoming increasingly common for customers (generally non-domestic) who are contracting directly with a Meter Operator for the provision of a ‘smart’ electricity meter. Smart meters generally provide half hourly data for energy management purposes and have communications so that regular accurate meter readings can be provided to the energy supplier.’

The key words are ‘reasonable grounds.’

EssexHebridean

Elysa said:

Thank you for your comments, I have only heard negative things about the smart meters and just don’t like the idea of them. I also heard you get charged different rates for the electricity which includes industrial rates…🤷‍♀️

You’ve been listening to the wrong people - and this is a great example of the harm that conspiracy theorists do! 

Some good things about smart meters:
- generally speaking, you no longer have to worry about giving monthly meter readings to your supplier to avoid estimated bills
- because the readings are (usually) sent automatically, no more inaccurate bills which then have to be sorted out
- the little display that sits in your house can help you to be alerted to high use items that perhaps you’d not realised were high use, and can also mean that you spot that the iron/your hair straighteners/ the oven has been left on before you leave the house
- and because of the above, that little display can also help you to reduce your use, and so your bills.
- If you wanted to explore it, you might be able to switch your energy across to “time of use” tariffs which can also work out cheaper.

In the future there is a possibility that everyone will be expected to use time of use tariffs - however there is also a possibility that if that does happen, then everyone who refuses a smart meter at that point may well find themselves on a more expensive rate anyway. There are already higher charges for smart meter refusers elsewhere in the world, so it’s not at all implausible. 

For avoidance of doubt in case you’ve heard any OTHER negatives, smart meters wil not allow your local burglar bill to know exactly when you’re in or out so they can break in and steal your telly, and your energy supplier will not instantly decide to switch toto a “far more expensive*” prepayment tariff against your will (unless you stop paying your bills, in which case in usual circumstances they can do that even without a smart meter!)

*not, in fact, always more expensive at all, and sometimes even cheaper! 

Edited for typo.

Qyburn

[Deleted User] said:

Qyburn said:

It requires the Supplier's permission, not just with their knowledge. See the Electricity Act 1989 Schedule 7 (2) and note the clause starts "If the authorised supplier agrees, the meter may be provided by the customer"

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/schedule/7

From the Meter Operators Association Guide:

‘The requirement is enshrined in the revisions to the Electricity Act 1989, which 
.’

You must have missed it, but that's the same link i gave in the post you quoted.  Your earlier comment missed off even seeking supplier agreement. Its all set out in readable legislation so it makes sense to look there rather than in secondary non-authoritative sources that give only part of the story.

[Deleted User]

Qyburn said:

[Deleted User] said:

Qyburn said:

It requires the Supplier's permission, not just with their knowledge. See the Electricity Act 1989 Schedule 7 (2) and note the clause starts "If the authorised supplier agrees, the meter may be provided by the customer"

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/schedule/7

From the Meter Operators Association Guide:

‘The requirement is enshrined in the revisions to the Electricity Act 1989, which 
.’

You must have missed it, but that's the same link i gave in the post you quoted.  Your earlier comment missed off even seeking supplier agreement. It’s all set out in readable legislation so it makes sense to look there rather than in secondary non-authoritative sources that give only part of the story.

Your quote suggested that a supplier can withhold its permission; however, my reading of various authoritative articles suggests that the supplier can only withhold its permission if it deems it reasonable to do so.  It is common practice for large businesses to install their own metering devices. I I don’t think that @spiro’s comment was that wide of the mark. I suggest that we get back on topic.

2010

Elysa said:

Hi
Can anyone advise me please.
My Electric supplier (Scottish Power) keeps asking me to have a Smart meter fitted.  I don’t want one.  Now they have sent me a letter saying my Electric meter is over 15 years old and is dangerous.  My electric meter is only just 11 years old and is fine.
Does anyone please have any ideas what I can do.  (If I look at switching supplier, I believe most want you to have a smart meter, I could be wrong?).
Many thanks in advance..

This is happening all the time.
Just last week on these boards Octopus was the culprit that was sending out emails advising the meter has reached the end of it`s life.
I had the same thing from Octopus last year, which I ignored and I haven`t heard anything since.

The fact is, energy providers have to fit a certain number of smart meters each year and if they fail to meet their target, the government can fine them.

I would say if you don`t want a SM just ignore the "advice" from SP because it`s no more than a ploy to get their numbers up.

TheElectricCow

Elysa said:

Thank you for your comments, I have only heard negative things about the smart meters and just don’t like the idea of them. I also heard you get charged different rates for the electricity which includes industrial rates…🤷‍♀️

Respectfully, in future you may find it best to listen a bit less to who/wherever you heard that from, as from this comment they don’t sound like they’re a particularly reliable source of information in this area.

More to the original point, assuming that the meter is within its certified life (which you would need to check) your welcome to just tell Scottish Power no thank you or ignore them if you really want. The letter they’ve sent probably holds little more weight than a letter from TV Licensing at the moment, and they’ve no need to force the matter until the meter is going to expire.

I imagine the exact wording on the letter is something along the lines of “an expired meter could be faulty and may not be recording usage accurately or might be dangerous” rather than them explicitly stating that the current meter is dangerous - if this were to be the case and they believed there was a genuine immediate danger with the meter I would quite reasonably expect them to insist on replacing it immediately as a same day emergency, which they haven’t done here.

Once the meter is actually reaching the end of its certified life (which may or may not be the case) things are a little different and it will have to eventually be replaced one way or another.

[Deleted User]

2010 said:

Elysa said:

Hi
Can anyone advise me please.
My Electric supplier (Scottish Power) keeps asking me to have a Smart meter fitted.  I don’t want one.  Now they have sent me a letter saying my Electric meter is over 15 years old and is dangerous.  My electric meter is only just 11 years old and is fine.
Does anyone please have any ideas what I can do.  (If I look at switching supplier, I believe most want you to have a smart meter, I could be wrong?).
Many thanks in advance..

This is happening all the time.
Just last week on these boards Octopus was the culprit that was sending out emails advising the meter has reached the end of it`s life.
I had the same thing from Octopus last year, which I ignored and I haven`t heard anything since.

The fact is, energy providers have to fit a certain number of smart meters each year and if they fail to meet their target, the government can fine them.

I would say if you don`t want a SM just ignore the "advice" from SP because it`s no more than a ploy to get their numbers up.

Suppliers get their meter end-of-life meter data from a National database. They have a legal obligation to replace meters before they reach the end of their certification period which starts at the point of meter manufacture not when the meter is installed. Ofgem would be down on suppliers like a 'ton of bricks' if there was evidence of falsehoods. 

I struggle to understand why people believe that smart meters are anything but meters that accurately record usage. Smart meters are certified in the same way as analogue meters. 

Over the next 12 months, we will see the mass rollout of time-of-use tariffs. Such tariffs have enabled me to pay no more than 6p/kWh for gas (and often less) and 8.5p/kWh for electricity over the past few Winter months.

Suppliers do not need 'to get their numbers up' as there are reports of consumers facing a delay in getting a smart meter fitted - partly, I accept, due to a semi-conductor shortage.

Finally, a consumer might think that their meter is working just fine but they have no idea whether it is measuring electricity and gas usage accurately: this is the whole point of having a meter certification scheme. It protects both consumers and suppliers from inaccurate billing.