Smart Meter

stripling

EssexHebridean said:

Elysa said:

Thank you for your comments, I have only heard negative things about the smart meters and just don’t like the idea of them. I also heard you get charged different rates for the electricity which includes industrial rates…🤷‍♀️

You’ve been intending to the wrong people - and this is a great example of the harm that conspiracy theorists do! 

Some good things about smart meters:
- generally speaking, you no longer have to worry about giving monthly meter readings to your supplier to avoid estimated bills
- because the readings are (usually) sent automatically, no more inaccurate bills which then have to be sorted out
- the little display that sits in your house can help you to be alerted to high use items that perhaps you’d not realised were high use, and can also mean that you spot that the iron/your hair straighteners/ the oven has been left on before you leave the house
- and because of the above, that little display can also help you to reduce your use, and so your bills.
- If you wanted to explore it, you might be able to switch your energy across to “time of use” tariffs which can also work out cheaper.

In the future there is a possibility that everyone will be expected to use time of use tariffs - however there is also a possibility that if that does happen, then everyone who refuses a smart meter at that point may well find themselves on a more expensive rate anyway. There are already higher charges for smart meter refusers elsewhere in the world, so it’s not at all implausible. 

For avoidance of doubt in case you’ve heard any OTHER negatives, smart meters wil not allow your local burglar bill to know exactly when you’re in or out so they can break in and steal your telly, and your energy supplier will not instantly decide to switch toto a “far more expensive*” prepayment tariff against your will (unless you stop paying your bills, in which case in usual circumstances they can do that even without a smart meter!)

*not, in fact, always more expensive at all, and sometimes even cheaper! 

I do find some of these 'pro-smart meter' comments rather frustrating. I do not want a smart meter and my decision is not based on 'conspiracy theories'. 

I'm on Tracker, I read my meters weekly, more often if prices are fluctuating wildly, and I don't 'forget to turn of appliances' or have no idea of the consumption rates of anything I use. I'm fully aware of everything that uses energy in my house - and for those that want micro awareness there's P110 plugs. Now maybe, when I want to renew my tariff, the smart meter issue will arise again for me - I will resist as far as possible. 

Meanwhile, I'm not going to change the time of use for anything because nothing I do is flexible. I work from home, I'm not going to give it a miss if the rates increase midday. 
As for smart meters, fine if that's what you want and they suit your purposes but the failure rate/problem figures are quite high. Particularly in areas where reception is poor. Then consumers are left with estimated bills, waiting months for a repair call out and all kinds of problems. Even Which has cautioned about this. 

On another level there is also the issue of the creeping data accumulation that will eventually be cross-referenced with all the other state/business acquired data further down the line - banking, health, online activity, biometrics etc., - Surveillance Capitalism is the moniker coined by a famous book - and sold to the highest bidder. This isn't a 'conspiracy theory' this has been and is being researched and written about academically apart from elsewhere.  [Sorry for the geek addition but it's part of my job]. 

So for sure, if you like your smart meter let people know all the whats and whys but maybe ease up on the 'conspiracy theory' suggestions, because that's not too helpful. 

Spoonie_Turtle

stripling said:

EssexHebridean said:

Elysa said:

Thank you for your comments, I have only heard negative things about the smart meters and just don’t like the idea of them. I also heard you get charged different rates for the electricity which includes industrial rates…🤷‍♀️

You’ve been intending to the wrong people - and this is a great example of the harm that conspiracy theorists do! 

Some good things about smart meters:
- generally speaking, you no longer have to worry about giving monthly meter readings to your supplier to avoid estimated bills
- because the readings are (usually) sent automatically, no more inaccurate bills which then have to be sorted out
- the little display that sits in your house can help you to be alerted to high use items that perhaps you’d not realised were high use, and can also mean that you spot that the iron/your hair straighteners/ the oven has been left on before you leave the house
- and because of the above, that little display can also help you to reduce your use, and so your bills.
- If you wanted to explore it, you might be able to switch your energy across to “time of use” tariffs which can also work out cheaper.

In the future there is a possibility that everyone will be expected to use time of use tariffs - however there is also a possibility that if that does happen, then everyone who refuses a smart meter at that point may well find themselves on a more expensive rate anyway. There are already higher charges for smart meter refusers elsewhere in the world, so it’s not at all implausible. 

For avoidance of doubt in case you’ve heard any OTHER negatives, smart meters wil not allow your local burglar bill to know exactly when you’re in or out so they can break in and steal your telly, and your energy supplier will not instantly decide to switch toto a “far more expensive*” prepayment tariff against your will (unless you stop paying your bills, in which case in usual circumstances they can do that even without a smart meter!)

*not, in fact, always more expensive at all, and sometimes even cheaper! 

I do find some of these 'pro-smart meter' comments rather frustrating. I do not want a smart meter and my decision is not based on 'conspiracy theories'. 

I'm on Tracker, I read my meters weekly, …

Meanwhile, I'm not going to change the time of use for anything because nothing I do is flexible. I work from home, I'm not going to give it a miss if the rates increase midday. 
As for smart meters, fine if that's what you want and they suit your purposes but the failure rate/problem figures are quite high. Particularly in areas where reception is poor. Then consumers are left with estimated bills, waiting months for a repair call out and all kinds of problems. Even Which has cautioned about this. 

… 

So for sure, if you like your smart meter let people know all the whats and whys but maybe ease up on the 'conspiracy theory' suggestions, because that's not too helpful. 

EDIT: my apologies, I got the posters mixed up.  The following applies to the OP not you.  ***You wrote "I also heard you get charged different rates for the electricity which includes industrial rates… " which is why people are referring to conspiracy theories - it's objectively wrong.  Only if your supply is deemed commercial will you pay business rates, and that has nothing to do with the type of meter you have.  The 'different rates' line is also very commonly associated with conspiracy theories, and the fact you're already on Tracker makes it more baffling that you would object to a smart meter on those grounds.  You don't have to have a time-of-use tariff changing throughout the day if you don't want to!***

It's fine to just not want one (although you will eventually need to have one) but decisions need to be based on correct information.  The usual discussion/persuasion on here comes about because too many people have made their decision based on inaccurate information. 

Even what you've written above: "failure rate/problem figures are quite high. Particularly in areas where reception is poor. Then consumers are left with estimated bills, waiting months for a repair call out and all kinds of problems" is not quite right. 
True failure to record usage has nothing to do with reception in the area.  Failure to record usage (or wildly inaccurately recording usage) is rare and of course is a huge problem if it happens - but it's not unique to smart meters at all.  That's why all meters have certification periods, to reduce the chances of it happening …
If the problem with a smart meter is just connectivity, most people would be able to still read the meter and submit readings just like with their non-smart meters (unless physically unable to, which for the vast majority would have been the case with their non-smart meter too).  Customers don't have to be stuck with estimated bills if the meters are reading but not communicating, if they're physically able to take readings.  Just like with non-smart meters.

I'm not going to try to persuade you, but I hope you can see why people have a problem when this kind of decision is based on flawed information (and that flawed information usually spreads too).

[Deleted User]

@stripling

Something to think about before your Tracker renewal time:

EssexHebridean

stripling said:

EssexHebridean said:

Elysa said:

Thank you for your comments, I have only heard negative things about the smart meters and just don’t like the idea of them. I also heard you get charged different rates for the electricity which includes industrial rates…🤷‍♀️

You’ve been intending to the wrong people - and this is a great example of the harm that conspiracy theorists do! 

Some good things about smart meters:
- generally speaking, you no longer have to worry about giving monthly meter readings to your supplier to avoid estimated bills
- because the readings are (usually) sent automatically, no more inaccurate bills which then have to be sorted out
- the little display that sits in your house can help you to be alerted to high use items that perhaps you’d not realised were high use, and can also mean that you spot that the iron/your hair straighteners/ the oven has been left on before you leave the house
- and because of the above, that little display can also help you to reduce your use, and so your bills.
- If you wanted to explore it, you might be able to switch your energy across to “time of use” tariffs which can also work out cheaper.

In the future there is a possibility that everyone will be expected to use time of use tariffs - however there is also a possibility that if that does happen, then everyone who refuses a smart meter at that point may well find themselves on a more expensive rate anyway. There are already higher charges for smart meter refusers elsewhere in the world, so it’s not at all implausible. 

For avoidance of doubt in case you’ve heard any OTHER negatives, smart meters wil not allow your local burglar bill to know exactly when you’re in or out so they can break in and steal your telly, and your energy supplier will not instantly decide to switch toto a “far more expensive*” prepayment tariff against your will (unless you stop paying your bills, in which case in usual circumstances they can do that even without a smart meter!)

*not, in fact, always more expensive at all, and sometimes even cheaper! 

I do find some of these 'pro-smart meter' comments rather frustrating. I do not want a smart meter and my decision is not based on 'conspiracy theories'. 

I'm on Tracker, I read my meters weekly, more often if prices are fluctuating wildly, and I don't 'forget to turn of appliances' or have no idea of the consumption rates of anything I use. I'm fully aware of everything that uses energy in my house - and for those that want micro awareness there's P110 plugs. Now maybe, when I want to renew my tariff, the smart meter issue will arise again for me - I will resist as far as possible. 

Meanwhile, I'm not going to change the time of use for anything because nothing I do is flexible. I work from home, I'm not going to give it a miss if the rates increase midday. 
As for smart meters, fine if that's what you want and they suit your purposes but the failure rate/problem figures are quite high. Particularly in areas where reception is poor. Then consumers are left with estimated bills, waiting months for a repair call out and all kinds of problems. Even Which has cautioned about this. 

On another level there is also the issue of the creeping data accumulation that will eventually be cross-referenced with all the other state/business acquired data further down the line - banking, health, online activity, biometrics etc., - Surveillance Capitalism is the moniker coined by a famous book - and sold to the highest bidder. This isn't a 'conspiracy theory' this has been and is being researched and written about academically apart from elsewhere.  [Sorry for the geek addition but it's part of my job]. 

So for sure, if you like your smart meter let people know all the whats and whys but maybe ease up on the 'conspiracy theory' suggestions, because that's not too helpful. 

But…my comment wasn’t addressed to you, it was addressed to the OP who has specifically stated that they had “heard” lots of the things that are commonly raised by conspiracy theorists to try to put people off smart meters.  Generally speaking, taking a comment that doesn’t apply to you because it wasn’t MADE to you, and telling someone they are wrong to make it because “that’s not the way I think” is really pretty pointless. As a spoiler, this applies out there in real life just as much as on this little corner of the internet, too! 

TheElectricCow

stripling said:

EssexHebridean said:

Elysa said:

Thank you for your comments, I have only heard negative things about the smart meters and just don’t like the idea of them. I also heard you get charged different rates for the electricity which includes industrial rates…🤷‍♀️

You’ve been intending to the wrong people - and this is a great example of the harm that conspiracy theorists do! 

Some good things about smart meters:
- generally speaking, you no longer have to worry about giving monthly meter readings to your supplier to avoid estimated bills
- because the readings are (usually) sent automatically, no more inaccurate bills which then have to be sorted out
- the little display that sits in your house can help you to be alerted to high use items that perhaps you’d not realised were high use, and can also mean that you spot that the iron/your hair straighteners/ the oven has been left on before you leave the house
- and because of the above, that little display can also help you to reduce your use, and so your bills.
- If you wanted to explore it, you might be able to switch your energy across to “time of use” tariffs which can also work out cheaper.

In the future there is a possibility that everyone will be expected to use time of use tariffs - however there is also a possibility that if that does happen, then everyone who refuses a smart meter at that point may well find themselves on a more expensive rate anyway. There are already higher charges for smart meter refusers elsewhere in the world, so it’s not at all implausible. 

For avoidance of doubt in case you’ve heard any OTHER negatives, smart meters wil not allow your local burglar bill to know exactly when you’re in or out so they can break in and steal your telly, and your energy supplier will not instantly decide to switch toto a “far more expensive*” prepayment tariff against your will (unless you stop paying your bills, in which case in usual circumstances they can do that even without a smart meter!)

*not, in fact, always more expensive at all, and sometimes even cheaper! 

I do find some of these 'pro-smart meter' comments rather frustrating. I do not want a smart meter and my decision is not based on 'conspiracy theories'. 

I'm on Tracker, I read my meters weekly, more often if prices are fluctuating wildly, and I don't 'forget to turn of appliances' or have no idea of the consumption rates of anything I use. I'm fully aware of everything that uses energy in my house - and for those that want micro awareness there's P110 plugs. Now maybe, when I want to renew my tariff, the smart meter issue will arise again for me - I will resist as far as possible. 

Meanwhile, I'm not going to change the time of use for anything because nothing I do is flexible. I work from home, I'm not going to give it a miss if the rates increase midday. 
As for smart meters, fine if that's what you want and they suit your purposes but the failure rate/problem figures are quite high. Particularly in areas where reception is poor. Then consumers are left with estimated bills, waiting months for a repair call out and all kinds of problems. Even Which has cautioned about this. 

On another level there is also the issue of the creeping data accumulation that will eventually be cross-referenced with all the other state/business acquired data further down the line - banking, health, online activity, biometrics etc., - Surveillance Capitalism is the moniker coined by a famous book - and sold to the highest bidder. This isn't a 'conspiracy theory' this has been and is being researched and written about academically apart from elsewhere.  [Sorry for the geek addition but it's part of my job]. 

So for sure, if you like your smart meter let people know all the whats and whys but maybe ease up on the 'conspiracy theory' suggestions, because that's not too helpful. 

While it's understandable that you may have your own reasonably logical reasons for not wanting a smart meter, there's a big difference between that and people whose reasons for not wanting them are based on rumours and misinformation - or worse the people who (intentionally or otherwise) spread the misinformation around smart meters deterring others who could actually benefit from having them.

Your own reasons may be grounded in reality, but not everyone is you and there are enough other (non-you) people out there who do genuinely believe the conspiracy theories like the radio waves coming from smart meters cause health problems from breathing troubles to brain cancer. There are also, unfortunately, plenty of people who will read one Facebook post stating as much and will believe it without question, and if it weren't for the "pro-smart meter" comments the only voices these people hear will be those of the conspiracy theorists touting all the "negatives" whether there's any truth to them or not.

In the case of the OP, they've clearly been given information which is inaccurate, so it's reasonable to offer up some corrections. As they say they've only heard about the negatives of smart meters it also makes sense to offer up some positive counter-points. This allows them to make their own more informed decision about whether they should get one, as you have done for yourself, instead of outright rejecting them based on things like hearing from somewhere that getting a smart meter will mean they're charged a higher price for their energy.

drt1710

Elysa said:

Hi
Can anyone advise me please.
My Electric supplier (Scottish Power) keeps asking me to have a Smart meter fitted.  I don’t want one.  Now they have sent me a letter saying my Electric meter is over 15 years old and is dangerous.  My electric meter is only just 11 years old and is fine.
Does anyone please have any ideas what I can do.  (If I look at switching supplier, I believe most want you to have a smart meter, I could be wrong?).
Many thanks in advance..

Lots of interesting replies already, so I won't add much.  I am in the same position as you though, I've had an email from my supplier telling me about the end of certification life etc, and I MUST have a smart meter.  
I took exception to the "MUST" part of the email as I've spent years avoiding them for my own personal reasons.
Having looked into it, I still can't be forced into having a smart meter, although having said that, traditional meters are no longer being made so are harder to come across for energy suppliers.
So tell your energy supplier you DON'T want a smart meter you want a traditional meter.
If they say no you must have a smart meter, tell them, Ok I'll have a smart meter but I want the extra functionality disabled,  this means it'll work in the same way as your current meter, and won't send any information to your supplier.
If they still deny you, get in touch with Citizens Advice, they will help you.

As for using a smart meter in smart mode, time-of-use tariffs were always on the cards, why do you think they came up with smart meters?  Plus all those of you not on a tariff and on the price cap, will be subject to time of use.  Also, those of you that think your data only goes to your supplier, check out the deal that Ofgem did with WPD for one, the tip of the iceberg!!!

GingerTim

drt1710 said:

Elysa said:

Hi
Can anyone advise me please.
My Electric supplier (Scottish Power) keeps asking me to have a Smart meter fitted.  I don’t want one.  Now they have sent me a letter saying my Electric meter is over 15 years old and is dangerous.  My electric meter is only just 11 years old and is fine.
Does anyone please have any ideas what I can do.  (If I look at switching supplier, I believe most want you to have a smart meter, I could be wrong?).
Many thanks in advance..

Lots of interesting replies already, so I won't add much.  I am in the same position as you though, I've had an email from my supplier telling me about the end of certification life etc, and I MUST have a smart meter.  
I took exception to the "MUST" part of the email as I've spent years avoiding them for my own personal reasons.
Having looked into it, I still can't be forced into having a smart meter, although having said that, traditional meters are no longer being made so are harder to come across for energy suppliers.
So tell your energy supplier you DON'T want a smart meter you want a traditional meter.
If they say no you must have a smart meter, tell them, Ok I'll have a smart meter but I want the extra functionality disabled,  this means it'll work in the same way as your current meter, and won't send any information to your supplier.
If they still deny you, get in touch with Citizens Advice, they will help you.

As for using a smart meter in smart mode, time-of-use tariffs were always on the cards, why do you think they came up with smart meters?  Plus all those of you not on a tariff and on the price cap, will be subject to time of use.A  Also, those of you that think your data only goes to your supplier, check out the deal that Ofgem did with WPD for one, the tip of the iceberg!!!

Meanwhile, in due course, those sticking to analogue meters will find themselves paying peak-rates 24/7.

EssexHebridean

The question of “the future” in relation to smart -v- analogue meters is of course a great unknown at the moment, but we can begin to model what is “likely” to happen from other countries in the world who are ahead of us in the way they are dealing with this. We already know of at least one other country charging a “penalty” for households refusing Smart Meters. It seems implausible that the U.K. won’t look to go the same way - whether by means of an extra fee on the standing charge, or more likely simply perhaps that those without smart meters won’t have the ability to choose tariffs that let them match their use to lower unit rates (like my current Economy 7 allowing me to load-shift overnight to use more energy at 16p/kWh). The comparison perhaps might be that this would mean “everyone” without a SM then paying a “peak rate” charge (like my current 48p/kWh daytime rate) across the board, 24/7. For some it will come down to being willing to pay for their principles - and that’s fair enough I’d say - although even then they won’t be able to do that indefinitely I imagine as forced changes will eventually happen. 

Mick-H

Any idea on why they replace a meter rather than test to see if the meter is working as intended?
What's to say the new meter is working properly once it's been fitted?
Reminds me of a car MOT, worthless the minute the car is driven away.

MikeJXE

I'm in the same boat as the OP I don't want a smart meter ether and I have my own reasons, I fail to see how it could benefit me and I also see all the complications that are posted on here. I don't need any of that, I am happy as I am reading my meter once a week, sticking it on a spreadsheet and sending my supplier readings every month, i do direct debit and in credit all is good for me 

I also understand tou tariffs but don't see any benefit for me but I can see benefits for others 

Ok for if you have solar which I can't have or could afford, neither do I want an EV

Once most people have smart meters whats stopping the energy supplier choosing you a tariff that only gives you a high rate when they know you mostly use your energy and a low rate when you don't use any. ? 

The energy companies will have enough data to make sure they are profitable, why would they want to give you a low tariff when they know you can't do without the energy at a certain time ? 

What's to stop the energy company inflating the rate for overnight charging of your EV 

IMO the energy company will be in complete control of how much you pay no matter how much you use.