Storage heater recommendations

RedFraggle

lilac_dawn said:

@RedFraggle you are a good advert for them Can I ask how you found your installer? I really need someone who has a good knowledge to look at the wiring I have here. 2 storage heaters are wired in to come on at the required Econ 7 times. The other 2 are wired to be permanently on so they had to have a timer attached to make sure they are only on to charge at the correct E7 times. I'd need advice too as to whether I'd replace or could add in another heater. My electrician has, as far as I know, left the country. 

From here: https://www.dimplex.co.uk/how-to-buy

JadeGurl

danrv said:

It’s possible that the E7 circuit is for the immersion hot water only. The small 2 bed property I rented a while ago had this setup with Dimplex radiators. 
I nearly went for three Quantum heaters for my 3 bed property but there were positioning and wiring issues. Aircon was the only affordable option left.

A small 2 way multi split aircon system may be suitable for the OP. No special wiring involved, just routing of the refrigerant pipes and outside inverter position. Possibly looking at £2.5-£3k if property’s suitable.
A couple of medium to large size Quantums would probably cost around £2-2.2k including fitting and any E7 wiring that may be needed.
 

Thanks for this advice. I've never heard of this kind of aircon. It would be great if you can recommend a company that does these as I'm interested in exploring this 

JadeGurl

Gerry1 said:

@JadeGurl

A heat pump is likely to cost more than a couple of Quantums, which are much more Plug and Play. You'll need wet radiators and pipes installed, so it may be quite disruptive, and you'll need the leaseholder's permission. Look at @matelodave's posts for useful info.

You can also get an air-to-air heatpump system (glorified air air-conditioner) but this won't qualify for grants. Look at @danrv's posts for useful info.

Look at @EssexHebridean's posts for useful info on using a heatpump.

A heatpump system with wet radiators may not be very responsive if you're out during the day and want a quick warm-up when you get back.  They need to be on most of the time during the winter, you can't expect to be warm as toast half an hour after switching it on.

Ask your neighbours what they have, but beware of comparing running costs because there are too many variables.

Thanks Gerry. A heat pump sounds like it'll be a lot of work.. I'm not sure what you mean by qualifying for grants? I spoke to the neighbors and it turns out one of them are just not using much heating (and getting mold!) and the others are also getting mold, but just had a kid so they've kept the heating on in part of the flat, and got a bill of around £500! So I don't think they have a solution. A friend recommended trying to get a wood burning stove fitted, but will have to check with the building management. I have a feeling they'll say no. Another suggestion was a gas heater, calor or something, again not sure if that's allowed in flats, but it does seem like a good option (something about seeing an actual fire makes it seem warmer too!) 

danrv

JadeGurl said:

danrv said:

It’s possible that the E7 circuit is for the immersion hot water only. The small 2 bed property I rented a while ago had this setup with Dimplex radiators. 
I nearly went for three Quantum heaters for my 3 bed property but there were positioning and wiring issues. Aircon was the only affordable option left.

A small 2 way multi split aircon system may be suitable for the OP. No special wiring involved, just routing of the refrigerant pipes and outside inverter position. Possibly looking at £2.5-£3k if property’s suitable.
A couple of medium to large size Quantums would probably cost around £2-2.2k including fitting and any E7 wiring that may be needed.
 

Thanks for this advice. I've never heard of this kind of aircon. It would be great if you can recommend a company that does these as I'm interested in exploring this 

I used the Huttie Group:
https://www.huttie.com/residential/air-conditioning/
Offices in Cambridge and London so depends where you’re based.
It works well and is quick to heat up just like my old warm air system. Not as quiet as fan delivery storage heaters but it’s not too bad at all.
A little hum from the inverter can be heard from indoors. 
The usual position for the indoor air handlers is high on the wall and the air is pushed downwards. I’ve always thought that normal radiator positioning for them is better as heat rises. Low level types of handlers are also available. 
Non ducted aircon systems like this are available as small single splits with one indoor unit or up to four or five. The more air handlers, the larger the outdoor inverter needs to be. Sometimes two are used instead of one larger one.
Quite often seen in retail premises or workshops. 

The government green heating grant is for heat pump wet system. Air to air offers heating and cooling so it’s not supported.
Hope this helps.

littleteapot

Scot_39 said:

Thanks  @littleteapot

Seems a bit perverse a decision that zero on a peak rate charging element overspill would override the smart adaption algorithm for off-peak charging.  But will try to remember and not post 0 as a potential solution again.

Well that's my interpretation of the paragraph in the manual as below:

"P06 - Maximum working period of the balance resistance. Set up this value to “0” to cancel the balance resistance operation. With balance resistance operation cancelled, the charge correction will not operate and the same charging level will be applied every day."

Scot_39

littleteapot said:

Scot_39 said:

Thanks  @littleteapot

Seems a bit perverse a decision that zero on a peak rate charging element overspill would override the smart adaption algorithm for off-peak charging.  But will try to remember and not post 0 as a potential solution again.

Well that's my interpretation of the paragraph in the manual as below:

"P06 - Maximum working period of the balance resistance. Set up this value to “0” to cancel the balance resistance operation. With balance resistance operation cancelled, the charge correction will not operate and the same charging level will be applied every day."

Sorry.

Wasn't trying to challange you - or questioning the statement -  just the logic behind it from the manufacturer.

If anything I would have expected it to perhaps bias the daily algorithm slightly on the overcharge side - to have a little reserve - rather than stop it completely.

Makes it sub optimal a purist might say.

And to me - effectively surely in limit that decision now makes them like old heaters - constantly tweaking input knobs - i.e. changing the manual charge target - for those wanting guaranteed zero peak rate element charge (which to me is not that unreasonable a user expectation).

Scot_39

JadeGurl said:

Gerry1 said:

@JadeGurl

A heat pump is likely to cost more than a couple of Quantums, which are much more Plug and Play. You'll need wet radiators and pipes installed, so it may be quite disruptive, and you'll need the leaseholder's permission. Look at @matelodave's posts for useful info.

You can also get an air-to-air heatpump system (glorified air air-conditioner) but this won't qualify for grants. Look at @danrv's posts for useful info.

Look at @EssexHebridean's posts for useful info on using a heatpump.

A heatpump system with wet radiators may not be very responsive if you're out during the day and want a quick warm-up when you get back.  They need to be on most of the time during the winter, you can't expect to be warm as toast half an hour after switching it on.

Ask your neighbours what they have, but beware of comparing running costs because there are too many variables.

Thanks Gerry. A heat pump sounds like it'll be a lot of work.. I'm not sure what you mean by qualifying for grants? I spoke to the neighbors and it turns out one of them are just not using much heating (and getting mold!) and the others are also getting mold, but just had a kid so they've kept the heating on in part of the flat, and got a bill of around £500! So I don't think they have a solution. A friend recommended trying to get a wood burning stove fitted, but will have to check with the building management. I have a feeling they'll say no. Another suggestion was a gas heater, calor or something, again not sure if that's allowed in flats, but it does seem like a good option (something about seeing an actual fire makes it seem warmer too!) 

Mold is a combination of dampness and temperature (around 14C min to avoid recommended).  Assuming it's not a structural thing - and it often isn't - given the number of people cutting back on heating and ventilation this winter - its likely a growing problem)

Surface mould can generally be wiped off using regular detergent and gloves.  Or a weak bleach solution if not going to drip on carpets soft furnishings or destroy paint wallpaper Colours etc.

But you don't want it becoming persistent.

The spores can get everywhere - clothes, soft furnishings, and obviuosly air - not good for babies, kids or frail / elderly, asthmatics etc  - but can impact healthy adults too - like a permanent cold in some cases.

If surfaces are cold moisture in the air condenses on them - so cold external walls etc  - especially those with reduced air circulation - e.g. if blocked by furniture - get damp.

Fans can help circulate more air to stop it "pooling" on those surfaces - but best to get rid if can.

Houses - traditional ones - were never built to be sealed - they need ventillation.

Opening vents in DG etc if have them and windows if really bad can help dry air - but obviously make house colder - so less popular at this time of year.

Dehumidifiers can be used to extract the dampness instead.  I use regularly when airing laundry in doors. Others use them daily or nightly.

My low powered 10l model c£150 iirc from Currys ( I thrn bough a similar one in Argos for sis flat - 2 kids , laundry and no airing space in winter - her DG windows were soaked nightly until used it 2 hrs daily )- can extract 1/2 pint plus from air in 2 hours  - costs less than 1 kWh for 3-4 hours over 2 days of airing.

Cheap full sized ones start around £100 on line - better makes and more powerful ones - get into £300 plus - so their not cheap to buy.

The cheaper models seemed in a bit short supply in high St chains last time looked - so others obviously alert to their benefits.

But would recommend neighbours consider idea of dehumidifier.

littleteapot

Scot_39 said:

littleteapot said:

Scot_39 said:

Thanks  @littleteapot

Seems a bit perverse a decision that zero on a peak rate charging element overspill would override the smart adaption algorithm for off-peak charging.  But will try to remember and not post 0 as a potential solution again.

Well that's my interpretation of the paragraph in the manual as below:

"P06 - Maximum working period of the balance resistance. Set up this value to “0” to cancel the balance resistance operation. With balance resistance operation cancelled, the charge correction will not operate and the same charging level will be applied every day."

Sorry.

Wasn't trying to challange you - or questioning the statement -  just the logic behind it from the manufacturer.

If anything I would have expected it to perhaps bias the daily algorithm slightly on the overcharge side - to have a little reserve - rather than stop it completely.

Makes it sub optimal a purist might say.

And to me - effectively surely in limit that decision now makes them like old heaters - constantly tweaking input knobs - i.e. changing the manual charge target - for those wanting guaranteed zero peak rate element charge (which to me is not that unreasonable a user expectation).

I didn't take it as a challenge, I was just clarifying for my own sanity .

Yes I agree it is a very sub-optimal behaviour. Which is why if I was buying new at full price I would probably choose the dimplex or creda.

lilac_dawn

@RedFraggle thanks but when I looked there it lead to a bathroom fitter and a stove fitter so I wondered how up-to-date it is. I will have another look though to double-check.

lilac_dawn

Is anyone still reading this thread?? Can anyone tell me if they have a storage heater in their bedroom? Originally I got rid of mine as was advised to, and have memories as a child of roasting overnight when the storage heater in my bedroom started charging up in the middle of the night. However, the panel heater I replaced it with - which is big and heats the room OK-ish - wakes me up anyway as starts clicking loudly before it comes on. It's also like an igloo in the main bedroom outside of the times the panel heater is programmed. I was wondering if it would be more economical to go back to a storage heater. Especially if it's a new-style one - I'm looking into upgrading them, one by one.