Are ASHP the way to go?

Mstty

5kw heat pump for a small 100sq m 4 bed house which is EPC grade B could well be right especially if up to current building regs. Heat losses are easier to calculate for the assessor if it's relatively new. If it's an older property with a lower EPC rating they may er on the side of caution and up the heat pump so you don't complain once installed.

Best thing is to be open with the assessor and if that's what you want and are certain push that point.

matt_drummer

Mstty said:

5kw heat pump for a small 100sq m 4 bed house which is EPC grade B could well be right especially if up to current building regs. Heat losses are easier to calculate for the assessor if it's relatively new. If it's an older property with a lower EPC rating they may er on the side of caution and up the heat pump so you don't complain once installed.

Best thing is to be open with the assessor and if that's what you want and are certain push that point.

I'm sure they know what they are doing.

To get the grant I'm pretty sure you need to go with their assessment, it goes to OFGEM and has to be approved.

I'm not sure how much influence an accountant from Essex will have over their `expert' judgement!

doodling

Hi,

matt_drummer said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mstty said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mstty said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mstty said:

I would suggest going for a named brand that has been in the ASHP market for a long time.

And make sure to go for a model that doesn't have an expensive standby consumption.

Probably a good time to start a list of "high resting standby consumption makes and models"

I can say our Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5kwh was on all summer heating the water 4 times a week and does not have a vampire load...thankfully.

Ours is also Ecodan, PUHZ-W85VAA (does that mean it's 8.5kW?).

A screenshot of one site I found says the PUHZ- is the R410 model, whereas PUZ- is the R32 model.  Unfortunately my tablet didn't do its clever thing of linking to the website - I think I took a screenshot of that because the R32 models didn't have a vampire load whereas ours (an R410) does, but I can't be 100% certain, the context is slightly unclear.

I do not know what the different models mean, either, but the terms are there for anyone wanting to investigate.

I think technically they are 8.5-9kwh models from what I have read in the tech spec manual when I need to get to sleep quickly. Looks like we are R410a as well slightly different model number though.

Yes our label looks like that too, I don't understand the different specs in one model but I don't think I really need to know.

It has *just* dawned on me, you saying yours is type R410A - our label says that too!  So I was slightly wrong about that, and it doesn't help rule anything out except perhaps just our particular model *sigh*

It's the specification of two different models, an 8.5 Kw and a 9.0 Kw.

It looks like yours is an 8.5 Kw model so the table on the left applies to you heat pump.

Unless anybody knows any different?

No, it is not two different models, it is under two different sets of environmental conditions.  With an external ambient temperature of 2 degrees and a water flow temperature of 35 degrees the middle column applies, with an external ambient temperature of 7 degrees and a water flow temperature of 35 degrees then the right hand column applies. 

What you actually get will be different again depending on the actual external ambient temperature and the actual water flow temperature.

Mstty

doodling said:

Hi,

matt_drummer said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mstty said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mstty said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mstty said:

I would suggest going for a named brand that has been in the ASHP market for a long time.

And make sure to go for a model that doesn't have an expensive standby consumption.

Probably a good time to start a list of "high resting standby consumption makes and models"

I can say our Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5kwh was on all summer heating the water 4 times a week and does not have a vampire load...thankfully.

Ours is also Ecodan, PUHZ-W85VAA (does that mean it's 8.5kW?).

A screenshot of one site I found says the PUHZ- is the R410 model, whereas PUZ- is the R32 model.  Unfortunately my tablet didn't do its clever thing of linking to the website - I think I took a screenshot of that because the R32 models didn't have a vampire load whereas ours (an R410) does, but I can't be 100% certain, the context is slightly unclear.

I do not know what the different models mean, either, but the terms are there for anyone wanting to investigate.

I think technically they are 8.5-9kwh models from what I have read in the tech spec manual when I need to get to sleep quickly. Looks like we are R410a as well slightly different model number though.

Yes our label looks like that too, I don't understand the different specs in one model but I don't think I really need to know.

It has *just* dawned on me, you saying yours is type R410A - our label says that too!  So I was slightly wrong about that, and it doesn't help rule anything out except perhaps just our particular model *sigh*

It's the specification of two different models, an 8.5 Kw and a 9.0 Kw.

It looks like yours is an 8.5 Kw model so the table on the left applies to you heat pump.

Unless anybody knows any different?

No, it is not two different models, it is under two different sets of environmental conditions.  With an external ambient temperature of 2 degrees and a water flow temperature of 35 degrees the middle column applies, with an external ambient temperature of 7 degrees and a water flow temperature of 35 degrees then the right hand column applies. 

What you actually get will be different again depending on the actual external ambient temperature and the actual water flow temperature.

I didn't want to state the obvious on that one but my label did clearly state min and max and as you have shown the data is nicely all there.😂😂

matt_drummer

Mstty said:

doodling said:

Hi,

matt_drummer said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mstty said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mstty said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mstty said:

I would suggest going for a named brand that has been in the ASHP market for a long time.

And make sure to go for a model that doesn't have an expensive standby consumption.

Probably a good time to start a list of "high resting standby consumption makes and models"

I can say our Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5kwh was on all summer heating the water 4 times a week and does not have a vampire load...thankfully.

Ours is also Ecodan, PUHZ-W85VAA (does that mean it's 8.5kW?).

A screenshot of one site I found says the PUHZ- is the R410 model, whereas PUZ- is the R32 model.  Unfortunately my tablet didn't do its clever thing of linking to the website - I think I took a screenshot of that because the R32 models didn't have a vampire load whereas ours (an R410) does, but I can't be 100% certain, the context is slightly unclear.

I do not know what the different models mean, either, but the terms are there for anyone wanting to investigate.

I think technically they are 8.5-9kwh models from what I have read in the tech spec manual when I need to get to sleep quickly. Looks like we are R410a as well slightly different model number though.

Yes our label looks like that too, I don't understand the different specs in one model but I don't think I really need to know.

It has *just* dawned on me, you saying yours is type R410A - our label says that too!  So I was slightly wrong about that, and it doesn't help rule anything out except perhaps just our particular model *sigh*

It's the specification of two different models, an 8.5 Kw and a 9.0 Kw.

It looks like yours is an 8.5 Kw model so the table on the left applies to you heat pump.

Unless anybody knows any different?

No, it is not two different models, it is under two different sets of environmental conditions.  With an external ambient temperature of 2 degrees and a water flow temperature of 35 degrees the middle column applies, with an external ambient temperature of 7 degrees and a water flow temperature of 35 degrees then the right hand column applies. 

What you actually get will be different again depending on the actual external ambient temperature and the actual water flow temperature.

I didn't want to state the obvious on that one but my label did clearly state min and max and as you have shown the data is nicely all there.😂😂

Mstty said:

doodling said:

Hi,

matt_drummer said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mstty said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mstty said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mstty said:

I would suggest going for a named brand that has been in the ASHP market for a long time.

And make sure to go for a model that doesn't have an expensive standby consumption.

Probably a good time to start a list of "high resting standby consumption makes and models"

I can say our Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5kwh was on all summer heating the water 4 times a week and does not have a vampire load...thankfully.

Ours is also Ecodan, PUHZ-W85VAA (does that mean it's 8.5kW?).

A screenshot of one site I found says the PUHZ- is the R410 model, whereas PUZ- is the R32 model.  Unfortunately my tablet didn't do its clever thing of linking to the website - I think I took a screenshot of that because the R32 models didn't have a vampire load whereas ours (an R410) does, but I can't be 100% certain, the context is slightly unclear.

I do not know what the different models mean, either, but the terms are there for anyone wanting to investigate.

I think technically they are 8.5-9kwh models from what I have read in the tech spec manual when I need to get to sleep quickly. Looks like we are R410a as well slightly different model number though.

Yes our label looks like that too, I don't understand the different specs in one model but I don't think I really need to know.

It has *just* dawned on me, you saying yours is type R410A - our label says that too!  So I was slightly wrong about that, and it doesn't help rule anything out except perhaps just our particular model *sigh*

It's the specification of two different models, an 8.5 Kw and a 9.0 Kw.

It looks like yours is an 8.5 Kw model so the table on the left applies to you heat pump.

Unless anybody knows any different?

No, it is not two different models, it is under two different sets of environmental conditions.  With an external ambient temperature of 2 degrees and a water flow temperature of 35 degrees the middle column applies, with an external ambient temperature of 7 degrees and a water flow temperature of 35 degrees then the right hand column applies. 

What you actually get will be different again depending on the actual external ambient temperature and the actual water flow temperature.

I didn't want to state the obvious on that one but my label did clearly state min and max and as you have shown the data is nicely all there.😂😂

Yes, I see now.

The min - max is the heating capacity under each of the two external temperatures.

Now it's obvious that the A is for air and W for water

Jinglish

If it helps anyone set a benchmark for MCS prices this is the quote I went ahead with 2 years ago after they did a full heat loss assessment. I would call mine a "standard installation". I got the GHG so subtract £5,000 I only had to pay £5,590 which I put on 0% credit card then got RHI payments of approx £140 every quarter for 7 years (both scheme now closed). So to answer the question are ASHP's the way to go? To me the answer was yes as I was replacing oil. If I was replacing gas I think I might not have proceeded at the time. And if I was to review the same again with the current prices of electricity even with a £5,000 grant it might not be worth it.

matt_drummer

Jinglish said:

If it helps anyone set a benchmark for MCS prices this is the quote I went ahead with 2 years ago after they did a full heat loss assessment. I would call mine a "standard installation". I got the GHG so subtract £5,000 I only had to pay £5,590 which I put on 0% credit card then got RHI payments of approx £140 every quarter for 7 years (both scheme now closed). So to answer the question are ASHP's the way to go? To me the answer was yes as I was replacing oil. If I was replacing gas I think I might not have proceeded at the time. And if I was to review the same again with the current prices of electricity even with a £5,000 grant it might not be worth it.

I have one quote that is £15,400 for a Vaillant system similar to this, VAT is 0% now.

So, about £5,400 more than two years ago.

I would have to pay £10,400 if I got the BUS grant.

matt_drummer

Here is a breakdown of my quote to compare

Heatpump, hot water tank etc   £6,800.34
Materials    £2,332.77
Installation    £4,750.00
Heat loss calculation and technical survey  £600.00
Administartion fee (MCS, BUS grant, Vaillant extended 7 year warranty)    £900.00

Total  £15,383.11

matt_drummer

Easy to explain the differences.

The heat pump, tank and controls are about the same.
The materials (pipes, cables etc) is about £1,000.00 more
The installation is about £4,250 more.

Maybe these installers are viewing the BUS grant as their bonus?

I don't know.

It's hard to find anybody who knows what they are doing and prepared to do it for less than this, most seem to want even more than this.


Anybody have any recent experience of recommendations for an install in Ipswich?

[Deleted User]

matt_drummer said:

ProDave said:

matt_drummer said:

ProDave said:

The grant requires you to use an MCS registered company and then you are suddenly back to inflated prices, arguably you don't benefit from the grant, the installer does.

Where do you buy an air source heat pump and all the stuff to go with it for £3,000?

This is my reference

Midsummer Wholesale

And if it is not done by an MCS registered installer those prices are plus VAT at 20%

I would think that a 7Kw Vaillant heat pump and tank would cost at least £6,000 plus VAT and then theres all the other stuff you would need like pipes, fittings and electrical stuff.

It soon adds up!

Under £3K   https://coolenergyshop.com/collections/air-source-heat-pumps/products/cool-energy-pro-range-air-source-heat-pump-ce-h5-5-5kw

That is just the heat pump, not "all the stuff"  You need valves, pipes, expansion vessels and a hot water tank to go with a gas system boiler, so I was comparing apples with apples, just the cost of a heat pump vs the cost of a system boiler.  A heat pump is more, but not that much more.

P.S I paid under £1000 for mine ebay bargain.

The Octopus deal above looks to be finally a big player charging a fair price, should shake up the marked a bit and force the expensive "specialists" to be more realistic?

I would love it if Octopus can fit a heat pump here, I'm sure it will be the best option financially, but it does also need to work.

For a start, that means not oversizing, or not by much anyway.

As far as energy suppliers go, I think Octopus are a great company and will eventually have (and already have had) a big role in improving how we buy and use energy.

I haven’t read the whole thread but when I looked at this last year for my EPC B home (probably A with 6.35kWp solar), Octopus responded with ‘no can do - microbore plastic pipes’.