Are ASHP the way to go?

matt_drummer

I reckon it's £10,000 in parts at least just for a retrofit and that would be plus VAT at 20% if you don't use the right installer, so £12,000 just in parts.

Then you have to pay someone to do it and hope they get it right!

Mstty

Octopus standard installation £3000 

Just for reference given their generally good customer service this might be a good option.

matt_drummer

Mstty said:

Octopus standard installation £3000 

Just for reference given their generally good customer service this might be a good option.

Yes, but that's actually £8,000 before the BUS grant and if you had to pay VAT that's £9,600

And that's from Octopus Energy who are probably not looking to make the profit that a small local company would.

They also probably buy the equipment for much less.

I also know for a fact, as they are coming to survey my house on Monday, that they are not interested in anything other than straightforward installations at this time.

So, I would still love to know where you can buy an air source heat pump and all that goes with it for £3,000?

Jinglish

I thought the VAT was dropped on heat pumps to 0% for the next 5 years?

matt_drummer

Jinglish said:

I thought the VAT was dropped on heat pumps to 0% for the next 5 years?

Yes, it is, but I think it has to be bought through and installed by an MCS registered installer.

If you buy it yourself (assuming not MCS) then I am pretty sure you pay VAT at the standard rate (20%)

I am an accountant, I would need to read the legislation, but I am sure that this is the case with solar panels and I would assume it is the same for ASHP.

I am having an air to air source heat pump fitted to my home office and that is zero rated.

But, as an individual just buying the equipment I would pay VAT at 20%

It may just  be that you would need to be a VAT registered business buying the goods, claim the VAT back on purchase and charge at 0% on installation.

I can't see any way a private individual could buy the equipment and not pay VAT at 20%

ProDave

matt_drummer said:

ProDave said:

The grant requires you to use an MCS registered company and then you are suddenly back to inflated prices, arguably you don't benefit from the grant, the installer does.

Where do you buy an air source heat pump and all the stuff to go with it for £3,000?

This is my reference

Midsummer Wholesale

And if it is not done by an MCS registered installer those prices are plus VAT at 20%

I would think that a 7Kw Vaillant heat pump and tank would cost at least £6,000 plus VAT and then theres all the other stuff you would need like pipes, fittings and electrical stuff.

It soon adds up!

Under £3K   https://coolenergyshop.com/collections/air-source-heat-pumps/products/cool-energy-pro-range-air-source-heat-pump-ce-h5-5-5kw

That is just the heat pump, not "all the stuff"  You need valves, pipes, expansion vessels and a hot water tank to go with a gas system boiler, so I was comparing apples with apples, just the cost of a heat pump vs the cost of a system boiler.  A heat pump is more, but not that much more.

P.S I paid under £1000 for mine ebay bargain.

The Octopus deal above looks to be finally a big player charging a fair price, should shake up the marked a bit and force the expensive "specialists" to be more realistic?

matt_drummer

Energy-saving materials and heating equipment (VAT Notice 708/6) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

This is the VAT notice.

It is on the supply and installation, not the purchase.

matt_drummer

ProDave said:

matt_drummer said:

ProDave said:

The grant requires you to use an MCS registered company and then you are suddenly back to inflated prices, arguably you don't benefit from the grant, the installer does.

Where do you buy an air source heat pump and all the stuff to go with it for £3,000?

This is my reference

Midsummer Wholesale

And if it is not done by an MCS registered installer those prices are plus VAT at 20%

I would think that a 7Kw Vaillant heat pump and tank would cost at least £6,000 plus VAT and then theres all the other stuff you would need like pipes, fittings and electrical stuff.

It soon adds up!

Under £3K   https://coolenergyshop.com/collections/air-source-heat-pumps/products/cool-energy-pro-range-air-source-heat-pump-ce-h5-5-5kw

That is just the heat pump, not "all the stuff"  You need valves, pipes, expansion vessels and a hot water tank to go with a gas system boiler, so I was comparing apples with apples, just the cost of a heat pump vs the cost of a system boiler.  A heat pump is more, but not that much more.

P.S I paid under £1000 for mine ebay bargain.

The Octopus deal above looks to be finally a big player charging a fair price, should shake up the marked a bit and force the expensive "specialists" to be more realistic?

I have Octopus Energy coming on Monday.

We live in a four bedroom detached house, about 100m2, annual gas usage is around 12,000 Kwh.

I will let you all know how it goes.

matt_drummer

ProDave said:

matt_drummer said:

ProDave said:

The grant requires you to use an MCS registered company and then you are suddenly back to inflated prices, arguably you don't benefit from the grant, the installer does.

Where do you buy an air source heat pump and all the stuff to go with it for £3,000?

This is my reference

Midsummer Wholesale

And if it is not done by an MCS registered installer those prices are plus VAT at 20%

I would think that a 7Kw Vaillant heat pump and tank would cost at least £6,000 plus VAT and then theres all the other stuff you would need like pipes, fittings and electrical stuff.

It soon adds up!

Under £3K   https://coolenergyshop.com/collections/air-source-heat-pumps/products/cool-energy-pro-range-air-source-heat-pump-ce-h5-5-5kw

That is just the heat pump, not "all the stuff"  You need valves, pipes, expansion vessels and a hot water tank to go with a gas system boiler, so I was comparing apples with apples, just the cost of a heat pump vs the cost of a system boiler.  A heat pump is more, but not that much more.

P.S I paid under £1000 for mine ebay bargain.

The Octopus deal above looks to be finally a big player charging a fair price, should shake up the marked a bit and force the expensive "specialists" to be more realistic?

Not really a household name is it?!

I couldn't buy that and I don't think I could compare it to any gas boiler I would buy.

The reality is that for anybody retrofitting an ASHP to replace a gas boiler it's going to cost way more than a straight boiler swap.

I know that you were originally comparing the cost of installing a system from scratch in a new build or complete install from scratch so I would guess you could do it for not that much more than a gas system.

I would expect a retrofit at my house to cost me £10,000 net of the BUS grant, at that price I wouldn't feel ripped off.

A couple of installers are talking in the region of £20,000 to £25,000 at my house, a complete joke.

One has already said he thinks I need a 14 Kw heat pump, it's ridiculous.

I have done my research and I know the correct answer is 5 Kw.

There is a really simple rule of thumb and that is to divide your annual gas usage by 2,900 to arrive at the size of heat pump you need. There are some adjustments depending upon how far north you live but for the south east this is about right.

I now have one local (Heat Geek) installer who has arrived at the same answer.

They all want to oversize because they are really scared about leaving a house not able to be heated.

The 14 Kw heat pump needs a buffer tank to stop it cycling, that's because it is nearly three times the correct size for this house!

matt_drummer

ProDave said:

matt_drummer said:

ProDave said:

The grant requires you to use an MCS registered company and then you are suddenly back to inflated prices, arguably you don't benefit from the grant, the installer does.

Where do you buy an air source heat pump and all the stuff to go with it for £3,000?

This is my reference

Midsummer Wholesale

And if it is not done by an MCS registered installer those prices are plus VAT at 20%

I would think that a 7Kw Vaillant heat pump and tank would cost at least £6,000 plus VAT and then theres all the other stuff you would need like pipes, fittings and electrical stuff.

It soon adds up!

Under £3K   https://coolenergyshop.com/collections/air-source-heat-pumps/products/cool-energy-pro-range-air-source-heat-pump-ce-h5-5-5kw

That is just the heat pump, not "all the stuff"  You need valves, pipes, expansion vessels and a hot water tank to go with a gas system boiler, so I was comparing apples with apples, just the cost of a heat pump vs the cost of a system boiler.  A heat pump is more, but not that much more.

P.S I paid under £1000 for mine ebay bargain.

The Octopus deal above looks to be finally a big player charging a fair price, should shake up the marked a bit and force the expensive "specialists" to be more realistic?

I would love it if Octopus can fit a heat pump here, I'm sure it will be the best option financially, but it does also need to work.

For a start, that means not oversizing, or not by much anyway.

As far as energy suppliers go, I think Octopus are a great company and will eventually have (and already have had) a big role in improving how we buy and use energy.