Is probate necessary?

scaredm

msb1234 said:

It’s quite sad that someone who was a son and brother is no longer welcome in a family. I’m sure from what has been said the blame lies solely at his feet, however as someone with an estranged sibling, I’d feel very guilty if my parents had left me everything and them nothing in their wills. 

As the deceased is leaving a significant amount of money to her 2 other sons, I think I’d be tempted to do a DOV in order for my sibling to receive some of that money. In this case, not a 3 way split, but perhaps a token £10k. 

I know.  And we have considered it.  However, if you knew the eldest sibling and what they've done and what they're capable of, you might be a little less generous and sympathetic towards them.

Sea_Shell

scaredm said:

msb1234 said:

It’s quite sad that someone who was a son and brother is no longer welcome in a family. I’m sure from what has been said the blame lies solely at his feet, however as someone with an estranged sibling, I’d feel very guilty if my parents had left me everything and them nothing in their wills. 

As the deceased is leaving a significant amount of money to her 2 other sons, I think I’d be tempted to do a DOV in order for my sibling to receive some of that money. In this case, not a 3 way split, but perhaps a token £10k. 

I know.  And we have considered it.  However, if you knew the eldest sibling and what they've done and what they're capable of, you might be a little less generous and sympathetic towards them.

Could that be grounds for someone to argue that she didn't really know what she wanted!!?    And that the 'last will'  and it's edit was just another period of indecisiveness?

Could the "hokey-cokey" of beneficiaries lead to questions?

Sea_Shell

scaredm said:

Flugelhorn said:

scaredm said:

poppystar said:

Keep_pedalling said:

scaredm said:

If it's only a 6 month timeframe in which he can contest, I think we've got nothing to worry about.  Our worry was that we'd read it was 12 years.  How could we ever relax during those 12 years, always worrying that he will come out of the woodwork?

It’s 6 months for claims under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975, but that does not cover claims made for things like an invalid will, undue influence or fraud. Those sort of claims are highly unlikely to get anywhere where the will was drawn up by a solicitor after face to face consultation.

Just a real shame, bordering on unprofessional, that the solicitor tried to persuade MIL to include all three sons and wrote the Will that way which resulted in the crossing out and initialling of that. Surely he should have written the Will as directed and kept notes on why one son was excluded? Or, if there was initially any lack of clarity, rewritten the Will without mention of that son. 

Couldn't agree more.  The solicitor was VERY apologetic to us last week.

Glad to hear they felt it needed apology, hopefully they will help through any sticky bits of the process if it comes to it.
Half wondering if the solicitor thought she might have second thoughts about it and they would need to change it again 

Undoubtedly.  She changed her will more often than her underwear.  (Well, at least 6 times in 15 years.  To me, that's excessive).

Sorry meant to quote this...

scaredm

Sea_Shell said:

scaredm said:

msb1234 said:

It’s quite sad that someone who was a son and brother is no longer welcome in a family. I’m sure from what has been said the blame lies solely at his feet, however as someone with an estranged sibling, I’d feel very guilty if my parents had left me everything and them nothing in their wills. 

As the deceased is leaving a significant amount of money to her 2 other sons, I think I’d be tempted to do a DOV in order for my sibling to receive some of that money. In this case, not a 3 way split, but perhaps a token £10k. 

I know.  And we have considered it.  However, if you knew the eldest sibling and what they've done and what they're capable of, you might be a little less generous and sympathetic towards them.

Could that be grounds for someone to argue that she didn't really know what she wanted!!?    And that the 'last will'  and it's edit was just another period of indecisiveness?

Could the "hokey-cokey" of beneficiaries lead to questions?

No doubts about it.  However, eldest sibling was only ever mentioned in two wills.  The last two.  The one where he convinced her to make him sole beneficiary, and the latest one where the solicitor advised MIL to share it three ways, against her wishes and which we now know she later changed.

poppystar

scaredm said:

Flugelhorn said:

scaredm said:

poppystar said:

Keep_pedalling said:

scaredm said:

If it's only a 6 month timeframe in which he can contest, I think we've got nothing to worry about.  Our worry was that we'd read it was 12 years.  How could we ever relax during those 12 years, always worrying that he will come out of the woodwork?

It’s 6 months for claims under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975, but that does not cover claims made for things like an invalid will, undue influence or fraud. Those sort of claims are highly unlikely to get anywhere where the will was drawn up by a solicitor after face to face consultation.

Just a real shame, bordering on unprofessional, that the solicitor tried to persuade MIL to include all three sons and wrote the Will that way which resulted in the crossing out and initialling of that. Surely he should have written the Will as directed and kept notes on why one son was excluded? Or, if there was initially any lack of clarity, rewritten the Will without mention of that son. 

Couldn't agree more.  The solicitor was VERY apologetic to us last week.

Glad to hear they felt it needed apology, hopefully they will help through any sticky bits of the process if it comes to it.
Half wondering if the solicitor thought she might have second thoughts about it and they would need to change it again 

Undoubtedly.  She changed her will more often than her underwear.  (Well, at least 6 times in 15 years.  To me, that's excessive).

Well, I’m guilty of that ….but call it keeping Will up to date (do change underwear far more often😉). Even so I would be annoyed if the solicitor didn’t put in each one what I wanted in case I changed my mind again. After all these days any changes can be done easily and a new Will printed off to be signed and witnessed. 

scaredm

Oh, I should also point out that MIL also produced a letter (I know this has an official name) that details exactly why eldest BIL has been omitted and how she felt she had been duped and deceived and anything he magically produced after her death was done so without her knowledge.

RAS

The one slightly awkward note is that BIL presumably thinks he's the sole beneficiary? Was he the executor in the one but last will?

If so, he might turn up at the solicitor's office to collect the revoked will?

Is he claiming any input into the funeral? If not, I'd be inclined to organise it and only mention the will if absolutely necessary. If he announces he's going to execute the estate, just leave him to think that until he finds out the will was revoked.

And I'd hire a couple of door-people for the funeral tea if he's likely to attend. He might behave or get drunk.

scaredm

RAS said:

The one slightly awkward note is that BIL presumably thinks he's the sole beneficiary? Was he the executor in the one but last will?

If so, he might turn up at the solicitor's office to collect the revoked will?

Is he claiming any input into the funeral? If not, I'd be inclined to organise it and only mention the will if absolutely necessary. If he announces he's going to execute the estate, just leave him to think that until he finds out the will was revoked.

And I'd hire a couple of door-people for the funeral tea if he's likely to attend. He might behave or get drunk.

Thank you.  Yes, he was the executor in the last-but-one will, but he knows that both of his other brothers are now executors.  What he doesn't know is what's in the will.  (He's already rang the solicitors to find out - they told us so).  He is having no involvement in the funeral - we're not allowing him to - as per their mother's wishes.

RAS

Good, although in most places you can't prevent someone attending a funeral if they wish.

Since MIL left her finances in good order, I'd be inclined to start the IHT and probate forms ASAP. You've got a decent handle on the funeral costs, so get it done before BIL has time to think to much. 

Flugelhorn

scaredm said:

Oh, I should also point out that MIL also produced a letter (I know this has an official name) that details exactly why eldest BIL has been omitted and how she felt she had been duped and deceived and anything he magically produced after her death was done so without her knowledge.

very good that she did this it will help and he needs to read it  -

sounds like he is on the case though having rung the solicitors - he needs a minder at the funeral, any friends would offer to make sure he behaves? 
We had one where ex-wife still considered herself to be the sorrowing widow, even though the deceased had been remarried for years. She was kept at the back of the service by some helpful souls