Is probate necessary?

scaredm

Sea_Shell said:

scaredm said:

Flugelhorn said:

I agree - curious it wasn't a new will or codicil. How difficult for you all. Sounds like brother didn't expect any - has he been involved at all?

Not involved in the slightest.  He's been completely estranged for approx 3 years.  Brother has no idea if he's in the will or not.  And we don't know how/when/if to tell him he's not.  Any advice on that?

There's no legal requirement to tell someone they're NOT a beneficiary.  How could there be, if you think about it.

So it's a judgement call.

Is he aware of the death?

The judgement call comes in because we don't even have any clue as to how long he has to contest the will.  What if we go through probate, etc, divvy up all the assets, spend the assets then brother comes out of the woodwork contesting the will.  What then?

DE_612183

scaredm said:

Sea_Shell said:

scaredm said:

Flugelhorn said:

I agree - curious it wasn't a new will or codicil. How difficult for you all. Sounds like brother didn't expect any - has he been involved at all?

Not involved in the slightest.  He's been completely estranged for approx 3 years.  Brother has no idea if he's in the will or not.  And we don't know how/when/if to tell him he's not.  Any advice on that?

There's no legal requirement to tell someone they're NOT a beneficiary.  How could there be, if you think about it.

So it's a judgement call.

Is he aware of the death?

Yes he is.

I presume he will be at the funeral? If so they you can gauge his position then.

If he doesn't turn up then, no problem.

You can carry on with the process as if he wasn't in the will and just see whether at some point it's easier to do a variation - 3 years is not that long to be estranged ( how old are the siblings? ).

Sea_Shell

scaredm said:

Sea_Shell said:

scaredm said:

Flugelhorn said:

I agree - curious it wasn't a new will or codicil. How difficult for you all. Sounds like brother didn't expect any - has he been involved at all?

Not involved in the slightest.  He's been completely estranged for approx 3 years.  Brother has no idea if he's in the will or not.  And we don't know how/when/if to tell him he's not.  Any advice on that?

There's no legal requirement to tell someone they're NOT a beneficiary.  How could there be, if you think about it.

So it's a judgement call.

Is he aware of the death?

The judgement call comes in because we don't even have any clue as to how long he has to contest the will.  What if we go through probate, etc, divvy up all the assets, spend the assets then brother comes out of the woodwork contesting the will.  What then?

Google tells me that they would have 6 months from probate being granted to contest a will.

They could also lodge a caveat against probate, I think, without formally contesting it.

That puts a spanner in the works too.   

And it only costs £3 to do!!!

Flugelhorn

Remember he can't really contest the will unless he was financially dependent on his mother. Suspect if he turns up to the funeral then he'll ask about the will then.
Give him a photocopy to read.

re the 6/12 to contest - it can take that time to sell the house and gather the assets so don't worry about that 

scaredm

DE_612183 said:

scaredm said:

Sea_Shell said:

scaredm said:

Flugelhorn said:

I agree - curious it wasn't a new will or codicil. How difficult for you all. Sounds like brother didn't expect any - has he been involved at all?

Not involved in the slightest.  He's been completely estranged for approx 3 years.  Brother has no idea if he's in the will or not.  And we don't know how/when/if to tell him he's not.  Any advice on that?

There's no legal requirement to tell someone they're NOT a beneficiary.  How could there be, if you think about it.

So it's a judgement call.

Is he aware of the death?

Yes he is.

I presume he will be at the funeral? If so they you can gauge his position then.

If he doesn't turn up then, no problem.

You can carry on with the process as if he wasn't in the will and just see whether at some point it's easier to do a variation - 3 years is not that long to be estranged ( how old are the siblings? ).

All in their 40s/50s.  He was estranged nearly all his adult life and was never in her will for many years (we still have copies of all of those wills).  Then he wormed his way back in to her life about five years ago, and convinced MIL to change her will to make him the sole beneficiary.  He then got drunk one night and told a mutual friend what he'd done.  The mutual friend contacted my husband and told him.  Husband then spoke to MIL and she confessed she'd been hoodwinked by him and that he'd use scare tactics to make her change the will from a previous 2 way split to just him as the sole beneficiary. She then changed it to a 3 way split (following the solicitors advice), but a year later obviously crossed his name out altogether to return it to a 2 way split.

Flugelhorn

Gosh @scaredm that is difficult. he isn't going to like it - sort of case where you might feel a deed of variation is in order though equally you may just wish to ensure that MIL's wishes are followed through

scaredm

Flugelhorn said:

Gosh @scaredm that is difficult. he isn't going to like it - sort of case where you might feel a deed of variation is in order though equally you may just wish to ensure that MIL's wishes are followed through

It's a dilemma we've been playing over and over all weekend.  Our guts tell us that he deserves nothing.  He deceived her.  He deceives everyone he comes across.  We know it will all get drunk, gambled and smoked away.  However, we want to never think about him or worry about him ever again, and the way to guarantee this might be the Deed of Variation.  

Ganga

scaredm said:

Flugelhorn said:

Gosh @scaredm that is difficult. he isn't going to like it - sort of case where you might feel a deed of variation is in order though equally you may just wish to ensure that MIL's wishes are followed through

It's a dilemma we've been playing over and over all weekend.  Our guts tell us that he deserves nothing.  He deceived her.  He deceives everyone he comes across.  We know it will all get drunk, gambled and smoked away.  However, we want to never think about him or worry about him ever again, and the way to guarantee this might be the Deed of Variation.  

The only problem might be if you give him some money whats to stop him coming back again for more.

scaredm

Ganga said:

scaredm said:

Flugelhorn said:

Gosh @scaredm that is difficult. he isn't going to like it - sort of case where you might feel a deed of variation is in order though equally you may just wish to ensure that MIL's wishes are followed through

It's a dilemma we've been playing over and over all weekend.  Our guts tell us that he deserves nothing.  He deceived her.  He deceives everyone he comes across.  We know it will all get drunk, gambled and smoked away.  However, we want to never think about him or worry about him ever again, and the way to guarantee this might be the Deed of Variation.  

The only problem might be if you give him some money whats to stop him coming back again for more.

We were advised by the solicitor (where MIL made her will) that if we drew up a letter worded a certain way, he would basically accept any offer we made on the condition that he could not contest the will or make claim to any more money at any point in the future.

scaredm

If it's only a 6 month timeframe in which he can contest, I think we've got nothing to worry about.  Our worry was that we'd read it was 12 years.  How could we ever relax during those 12 years, always worrying that he will come out of the woodwork?