Is probate necessary?

Flugelhorn

I think the 12 year thing is in quite limited and is more to do with beneficiaries claiming against the estate - the 6 months is under the inheritance act which is where people claim if they were dependant and left out of the will (which would be the case in this instance).

The risk is of him placing a caveat on probate application which slows everything up  - however it doesn't sound like he has any grounds https://www.gov.uk/stop-probate-application

Keep_pedalling

scaredm said:

If it's only a 6 month timeframe in which he can contest, I think we've got nothing to worry about.  Our worry was that we'd read it was 12 years.  How could we ever relax during those 12 years, always worrying that he will come out of the woodwork?

It’s 6 months for claims under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975, but that does not cover claims made for things like an invalid will, undue influence or fraud. Those sort of claims are highly unlikely to get anywhere where the will was drawn up by a solicitor after face to face consultation.

scaredm

His main angle will be that MIL didn't have mental capacity.  Don't get me wrong, there were times when WE wondered if she had it, but social workers, doctors, district nurses all said she had it.

The second angle will be coercion.  He will argue that husband and BIL coerced MIL into leaving him out.  They did nothing of the kind, and the will solicitor and her carer will argue this.

If we really believe he can't contest, happy days.  There will certainly be no offer of money made to him.

Flugelhorn

scaredm said:

His main angle will be that MIL didn't have mental capacity.  Don't get me wrong, there were times when WE wondered if she had it, but social workers, doctors, district nurses all said she had it.

The second angle will be coercion.  He will argue that husband and BIL coerced MIL into leaving him out.  They did nothing of the kind, and the will solicitor and her carer will argue this.

If we really believe he can't contest, happy days.  There will certainly be no offer of money made to him.

The thing abut capacity is that the she only has to have it for that event at that time - she may forget where she put the keys or the cat but she could make those inheritance decisions clear - good that there was a solicitor there. 

also coercion is difficult to fight about  if the only people in the room were the solicitor and the carer (ie none of the beneficiaries).

Sounds like you just need to start the process as soon as poss

scaredm

Thank you @Flugelhorn - that's very reassuring.  We're doubting everything at the moment.

poppystar

Keep_pedalling said:

scaredm said:

If it's only a 6 month timeframe in which he can contest, I think we've got nothing to worry about.  Our worry was that we'd read it was 12 years.  How could we ever relax during those 12 years, always worrying that he will come out of the woodwork?

It’s 6 months for claims under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975, but that does not cover claims made for things like an invalid will, undue influence or fraud. Those sort of claims are highly unlikely to get anywhere where the will was drawn up by a solicitor after face to face consultation.

Just a real shame, bordering on unprofessional, that the solicitor tried to persuade MIL to include all three sons and wrote the Will that way which resulted in the crossing out and initialling of that. Surely he should have written the Will as directed and kept notes on why one son was excluded? Or, if there was initially any lack of clarity, rewritten the Will without mention of that son. 

scaredm

poppystar said:

Keep_pedalling said:

scaredm said:

If it's only a 6 month timeframe in which he can contest, I think we've got nothing to worry about.  Our worry was that we'd read it was 12 years.  How could we ever relax during those 12 years, always worrying that he will come out of the woodwork?

It’s 6 months for claims under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975, but that does not cover claims made for things like an invalid will, undue influence or fraud. Those sort of claims are highly unlikely to get anywhere where the will was drawn up by a solicitor after face to face consultation.

Just a real shame, bordering on unprofessional, that the solicitor tried to persuade MIL to include all three sons and wrote the Will that way which resulted in the crossing out and initialling of that. Surely he should have written the Will as directed and kept notes on why one son was excluded? Or, if there was initially any lack of clarity, rewritten the Will without mention of that son. 

Couldn't agree more.  The solicitor was VERY apologetic to us last week.

Flugelhorn

scaredm said:

poppystar said:

Keep_pedalling said:

scaredm said:

If it's only a 6 month timeframe in which he can contest, I think we've got nothing to worry about.  Our worry was that we'd read it was 12 years.  How could we ever relax during those 12 years, always worrying that he will come out of the woodwork?

It’s 6 months for claims under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975, but that does not cover claims made for things like an invalid will, undue influence or fraud. Those sort of claims are highly unlikely to get anywhere where the will was drawn up by a solicitor after face to face consultation.

Just a real shame, bordering on unprofessional, that the solicitor tried to persuade MIL to include all three sons and wrote the Will that way which resulted in the crossing out and initialling of that. Surely he should have written the Will as directed and kept notes on why one son was excluded? Or, if there was initially any lack of clarity, rewritten the Will without mention of that son. 

Couldn't agree more.  The solicitor was VERY apologetic to us last week.

Glad to hear they felt it needed apology, hopefully they will help through any sticky bits of the process if it comes to it.
Half wondering if the solicitor thought she might have second thoughts about it and they would need to change it again 

msb1234

It’s quite sad that someone who was a son and brother is no longer welcome in a family. I’m sure from what has been said the blame lies solely at his feet, however as someone with an estranged sibling, I’d feel very guilty if my parents had left me everything and them nothing in their wills. 

As the deceased is leaving a significant amount of money to her 2 other sons, I think I’d be tempted to do a DOV in order for my sibling to receive some of that money. In this case, not a 3 way split, but perhaps a token £10k. 

scaredm

Flugelhorn said:

scaredm said:

poppystar said:

Keep_pedalling said:

scaredm said:

If it's only a 6 month timeframe in which he can contest, I think we've got nothing to worry about.  Our worry was that we'd read it was 12 years.  How could we ever relax during those 12 years, always worrying that he will come out of the woodwork?

It’s 6 months for claims under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975, but that does not cover claims made for things like an invalid will, undue influence or fraud. Those sort of claims are highly unlikely to get anywhere where the will was drawn up by a solicitor after face to face consultation.

Just a real shame, bordering on unprofessional, that the solicitor tried to persuade MIL to include all three sons and wrote the Will that way which resulted in the crossing out and initialling of that. Surely he should have written the Will as directed and kept notes on why one son was excluded? Or, if there was initially any lack of clarity, rewritten the Will without mention of that son. 

Couldn't agree more.  The solicitor was VERY apologetic to us last week.

Glad to hear they felt it needed apology, hopefully they will help through any sticky bits of the process if it comes to it.
Half wondering if the solicitor thought she might have second thoughts about it and they would need to change it again 

Undoubtedly.  She changed her will more often than her underwear.  (Well, at least 6 times in 15 years.  To me, that's excessive).