Do EDF Install Economy 10 Meters and other Energy help questions

dunstonh

Knowing you off peak/peak ratio is important for choosing supplier.

Just today, I switched my E7 from bulb to EDF.     The day rate is higher with EDF but the night rate is lower.  71% of our use is night rate and that ratio favoured EDF.    Had my ratio been lower, then Bulb would be better.     And if the ratio is lower still, then single rate would be best.

Rates were
0.2175p Night and 0.36755 day for bulb (plus VAT)
0.0670p Night and 0.51900 day for EDF  (plus VAT)

bery_451

Jyana said:

Yep, everything you run through the daytime hours will become around 20p more expensive - at the current rates - and you would have to shift around 40%+ of your usage to the off peak times in order to see any savings.

Do you mean 20% more expensive or 20p per kWh more expensive in compared to the capped normal SVR tariff electric kWh rate. Is there like a table comparing prices in kWh to Economy 7 or 10?

Economy 7 is as after midnight off-peak hours and Economy 10 is better with 3 more off-peak hours during the daytime however I do not understand why people in such dire need, reviewed on a case by case basis as mentioned earlier in this thread by a mse user, like a elderly vulnerable person for example who qualifies for this Economy 7 is expected to be awake after midnight for 7hrs and sleep at day times like a bat to take advantage of Economy 7 savings? Can you make sense of this as I still don't understand. 

If the peak rate day rate works out more expensive over normal/fixed/variable rates for Economy 7 or 10 then how can this be suitable for Vulnerable poor people as it sounds much worse unless your a bat of course.

dunstonh

Do you mean 20% more expensive or 20p per kWh more expensive in compared to the capped normal SVR tariff electric kWh rate. Is there like a table comparing prices in kWh to Economy 7 or 10?

Look at my response above showing Bulb and EDF and how it can be very different between suppliers.
You would need to do your own research to  compare prices at this time.   The usual comparison places are not offering energy comparisons at the moment.

Economy 7 is as after midnight off-peak hours and Economy 10 is better with 3 more off-peak hours during the daytime however I do not understand why people in such dire need, reviewed on a case by case basis as mentioned earlier in this thread by a mse user, like a elderly vulnerable person for example who qualifies for this Economy 7 is expected to be awake after midnight for 7hrs and sleep at day times like a bat to take advantage of Economy 7 savings? Can you make sense of this as I still don't understand. 

Economy 10 has 3 more hours but the terms would not be as good as economy 7.     It all depends on when you use the energy and how much you pay.   Its possible that someone on economy 10 or economy 7 would be better off on a single rate.

Not everyone on multi-pricing tarrifs is on them due to heating.    Heating is the most common reason but apart from that, you do need to run at least 40% off peak (with the right tariff) to make it viable.    In our case, we have an electric AGA which draws for 7 hours off peak and a hybrid car which can power in those off peak hours.   Devices like dishwashers, tumbles and washing machines can have timers on them to start during off peak rates. 

If the peak rate day rate works out more expensive over normal/fixed/variable rates for Economy 7 or 10 then how can this be suitable for Vulnerable poor people as it sounds much worse unless your a bat of course.

At the end of the day, you go with the tariff option that suits you.  If economy 7 isnt for you (or the 4 hour or 10 hour versions) then go single rate.  The whole reason why off peak is cheap is because there is excess supply and users that are willing to use off peak energy rather than peak time energy.    If you don't like that model, then don't sign up for it.

Keep_pedalling

bery_451 said:

Jyana said:

Yep, everything you run through the daytime hours will become around 20p more expensive - at the current rates - and you would have to shift around 40%+ of your usage to the off peak times in order to see any savings.

Do you mean 20% more expensive or 20p per kWh more expensive in compared to the capped normal SVR tariff electric kWh rate. Is there like a table comparing prices in kWh to Economy 7 or 10?

Economy 7 is as after midnight off-peak hours and Economy 10 is better with 3 more off-peak hours during the daytime however I do not understand why people in such dire need, reviewed on a case by case basis as mentioned earlier in this thread by a mse user, like a elderly vulnerable person for example who qualifies for this Economy 7 is expected to be awake after midnight for 7hrs and sleep at day times like a bat to take advantage of Economy 7 savings? Can you make sense of this as I still don't understand. 

If the peak rate day rate works out more expensive over normal/fixed/variable rates for Economy 7 or 10 then how can this be suitable for Vulnerable poor people as it sounds much worse unless your a bat of course.

People don’t qualify for E7 because they are old, vulnerable or any other reason, it is a tariff that benefits people who can shift a large portion of they electrify use to the early hours which is mainly all electric properties using night storage heaters. 

As an example you can see the capped rates for Octopus single rates and E7 rates on the following link. Because the cap is based on average usage not the actual unit rate the supplier charges more for the day rate on E7 than the single rate tariff to compensate for the cheaper night rate. The difference is that you get 7 hours of cheap units at around 19p kWh cheaper than the single rate and 17 hours around 13p more expensive. For someone like you with gas heating and no EV or battery storage E7 is going to be very expensive.

https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-price-cap-oct-2022/

Jyana

bery_451 said:

Jyana said:

Yep, everything you run through the daytime hours will become around 20p more expensive - at the current rates - and you would have to shift around 40%+ of your usage to the off peak times in order to see any savings.

Do you mean 20% more expensive or 20p per kWh more expensive in compared to the capped normal SVR tariff electric kWh rate. Is there like a table comparing prices in kWh to Economy 7 or 10?

Economy 7 is as after midnight off-peak hours and Economy 10 is better with 3 more off-peak hours during the daytime however I do not understand why people in such dire need, reviewed on a case by case basis as mentioned earlier in this thread by a mse user, like a elderly vulnerable person for example who qualifies for this Economy 7 is expected to be awake after midnight for 7hrs and sleep at day times like a bat to take advantage of Economy 7 savings? Can you make sense of this as I still don't understand. 

If the peak rate day rate works out more expensive over normal/fixed/variable rates for Economy 7 or 10 then how can this be suitable for Vulnerable poor people as it sounds much worse unless your a bat of course.

I mean 20p not 20%. E7 isn't a tariff for vulnerable people, it's for households who are electric only and who have things like storage heaters which use night time/off peak electricity to heat their homes during the winter. This would cost far too much to do using normal electric heaters on use single rate electricity otherwise. These types of households then try to push other usage to off peak times if possible to make the most of the cheaper off peak use - so run washing machines and water heating at night too - as the day time rate is a lot more for them, in order to 'make up' for the cheaper night time use.

Jyana

bery_451 said:

Astria said:

bery_451 said:

Mobtr said:

EDF still do Economy 7 but it will be a smart meter and will only be installed if there is communication to the meter. 

With regards to hardship funds, I believe they are paid to people in arrears to their energy company and it usually is the amount of the balance to clear it not to put you in credit. They tend to be paid to those who try to help themselves, not those who just don’t pay at all so you can’t just not pay your bills for months & get it cleared, you need to be seen to be trying 

Okay just to clarify there is no actual Economy 7 meter fitted in the property, but its now done on a smart meter? Do you mean communication to the Economy 7 meter or to a normal meter?

Do you happen to know any energy supplier that do Economy meters but not digitally through a smart meter? What it is I would like a smart meter but from what I seeing on TV about the government new proposals to reduce global warming co2 is to introduce a carbon tax, a carbon credits system by estimate 2025 where energy users buy carbon credits to offset their carbon footprint and smart meters knows how much carbon your property produces in g grams. For example showering twice a day produces more co2 than a person who showers once a day because gas boiler heats the water resulting in more emissions from the boiler so the government may introduce a law where you required to buy carbon credits to offset your excess co2 emissions. Maybe 1 carbon credit may offset 10grams of carbon dioxide co2, who knows what system the government has in place in future but what one thing that we all know and we can agree on is smart meters are called smart because they are smart for a reason.

Even if you don't have a smart meter, you will still be billed based on units used, so if you use 10 units of energy you will be billed the extra tax for the carbon emissions on those units regardless of meter type. In fact, you could end up paying more if you don't have a smart meter because you will eventually be put on legacy tariffs with higher costs than those available to smart meter users. This is already the case in some situations.

Smart meters know how many grams of co2 is emitted from your property, heck they smart enough to know what time you switched on your tv, or opened your fridge door hence they are called 'Smart' for a reason. Can traditional older meters work out how many showers you took that day, how many times you got the bottle of milk out from the fridge to make a cuppa? 

Greta Thunberg wants to save our planet from becoming a Dessert and stop our oceans from boiling up for the sake of our grandchildren and their children. I do not want to spread FUD or anything and I hope that the future wont end up like that with our planet turning into Mars so Governments are listening to her and do whatever it takes in the name of 'saving the planet' not 'Controlling every bit of out lives' 

We all know and we see on the TV everyday that the Government top priority now is Global Warming. I wished Global warming was in the UK now so we don't have to freeze to death, but we all know the government cant control every bit of your lives by saying for example with their new climate change legislation/laws, like you can only use the washing machine twice a week, only allowed shower every 48hrs, only allowed 3 meals a day so your fridge is only opened 3 times a day to reduce co2 otherwise that would be called remote slavery but instead we all know they will introduce carbox tax carbon credits system soon so people have to buy these carbon credits maybe like £10 carbon credit for 10grams co2 or something like that to offset their excess co2 emissions against recommended co2 government guidelines per person daily. That's the way that they will use to 'Control the people' cough cough sorry I meant 'Save the Planet' 

I wish I was rich like Greta Thunberg flying around in a private plane to different countries instead of typing this thread and worrying about money issues...

Smart meters don't know what devices you are using or when you are using them any more than your current meter does. All it does is know what energy you are using at what time, that energy could be for anything though. 

If things somewhere down the line go the way you are thinking of, then having a smart meter would more than likely be a good idea as time of use tariffs would be the way to go in order to reduce usage to times when there is plenty of it to go around and reduce the strain on the network. Much like some of the more experimental tariffs now, where last week some customers on these tariffs actually got paid to use electricity overnight as the wind was producing an excess.

bery_451

Gerry1 said:

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

From a previous thread you are using gas CH, so why do you think E7 would be your best option? 

Economy 7 or 10 can still save money as the fridge is running 24/7, also in those off peak hours in Economy 7 or 10 you can use electric heaters to warm up your property instead of gas CH which works out to be cheaper right?

No, the cost to use your fridge and freezer would be more expensive at you would get 7 hours cheaper than your current rate but 17 hours at a higher rate. Everything else you run during the park rate would also become more expensive. 

As for heating the house while you are in bed that is going to cost you more than the marginal saving on gas not having to raise the temperature so far first thing in the morning. The only time some form of variable rates will suit you will be if you buy an EV or install a battery storage system.

Okay cheers just to clarify Economy 7 or 10 tariffs have more expensive electricity price per kWh for peak hours in compared to normal/fixed/variable tariffs that millions of people are on? If so only the off-peak hours of economy 7 or 10 have cheaper electricity rates?

That's the way it's always been, ever since the White Meter (8hr cheap rate) days.  Before the energy crisis the break even point for E7 could be as low as 15 - 20% with some suppliers, but now the spread between rates can be far greater.  Do your sums carefully !

There was like Economy 8 white meter back in the day do you mean? Who keeps the spread money between the bid and ask prices, and if the spread is greater then that's more money to be made.

bery_451

matelodave said:

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

From a previous thread you are using gas CH, so why do you think E7 would be your best option? 

Economy 7 or 10 can still save money as the fridge is running 24/7, also in those off peak hours in Economy 7 or 10 you can use electric heaters to warm up your property instead of gas CH which works out to be cheaper right?

No, the cost to use your fridge and freezer would be more expensive at you would get 7 hours cheaper than your current rate but 17 hours at a higher rate. Everything else you run during the park rate would also become more expensive. 

As for heating the house while you are in bed that is going to cost you more than the marginal saving on gas not having to raise the temperature so far first thing in the morning. The only time some form of variable rates will suit you will be if you buy an EV or install a battery storage system.

Okay cheers just to clarify Economy 7 or 10 tariffs have more expensive electricity price per kWh for peak hours in compared to normal/fixed/variable tariffs that millions of people are on? If so only the off-peak hours of economy 7 or 10 have cheaper electricity rates?

Exactly, and in general peak rates are significantly more than off-peak rates so you need to be able to shift around 40% or more of your consumption to off-peak to make it viable and E10 peak rates can be really high.

You really need to do your sums and to decide whether you can adjust your lifestyle to use maximum leccy during the night and minimum during the day which means washing, ironing and even showering between midnight and 7am if you've got an electric shower.. Heating hot water overnight with an immersion is viable but still generally more expensive than using gas unless you can get an off-peak rate of less than around 11-12p/kwh whilst gas is still 10.3p/kwh.

So E10 peak rates are more expensive than E7 peak rates? Just to confirm both of these peak rates are much more expensive than the capped SVR electricity rate now?

Doesn't Economy 10 have off-peak cheaper rates between Midday and 3pm, 5pm-7pm giving like 5 hours in the daytime for cheaper rates. During the upcoming recessions when loads of people are going to lose their jobs and will usually be awake at these times, a lot of electric intensive things can be done at home during these times for cheaper electricity bills correct? The fridge is the only appliance that will be running 14hrs a day running at a more expensive peak electricity rate I guess.

Apart from Economy 7 and Economy 10 is there any more flexible tariffs or better meters apart from smart meters to save on electricity and gas costs? 

GingerTim

bery_451 said:

Astria said:

bery_451 said:

Mobtr said:

EDF still do Economy 7 but it will be a smart meter and will only be installed if there is communication to the meter. 

With regards to hardship funds, I believe they are paid to people in arrears to their energy company and it usually is the amount of the balance to clear it not to put you in credit. They tend to be paid to those who try to help themselves, not those who just don’t pay at all so you can’t just not pay your bills for months & get it cleared, you need to be seen to be trying 

Okay just to clarify there is no actual Economy 7 meter fitted in the property, but its now done on a smart meter? Do you mean communication to the Economy 7 meter or to a normal meter?

Do you happen to know any energy supplier that do Economy meters but not digitally through a smart meter? What it is I would like a smart meter but from what I seeing on TV about the government new proposals to reduce global warming co2 is to introduce a carbon tax, a carbon credits system by estimate 2025 where energy users buy carbon credits to offset their carbon footprint and smart meters knows how much carbon your property produces in g grams. For example showering twice a day produces more co2 than a person who showers once a day because gas boiler heats the water resulting in more emissions from the boiler so the government may introduce a law where you required to buy carbon credits to offset your excess co2 emissions. Maybe 1 carbon credit may offset 10grams of carbon dioxide co2, who knows what system the government has in place in future but what one thing that we all know and we can agree on is smart meters are called smart because they are smart for a reason.

Even if you don't have a smart meter, you will still be billed based on units used, so if you use 10 units of energy you will be billed the extra tax for the carbon emissions on those units regardless of meter type. In fact, you could end up paying more if you don't have a smart meter because you will eventually be put on legacy tariffs with higher costs than those available to smart meter users. This is already the case in some situations.

Smart meters know how many grams of co2 is emitted from your property, heck they smart enough to know what time you switched on your tv, or opened your fridge door hence they are called 'Smart' for a reason. Can traditional older meters work out how many showers you took that day, how many times you got the bottle of milk out from the fridge to make a cuppa? 

Greta Thunberg wants to save our planet from becoming a Dessert and stop our oceans from boiling up for the sake of our grandchildren and their children. I do not want to spread FUD or anything and I hope that the future wont end up like that with our planet turning into Mars so Governments are listening to her and do whatever it takes in the name of 'saving the planet' not 'Controlling every bit of out lives' 

We all know and we see on the TV everyday that the Government top priority now is Global Warming. I wished Global warming was in the UK now so we don't have to freeze to death, but we all know the government cant control every bit of your lives by saying for example with their new climate change legislation/laws, like you can only use the washing machine twice a week, only allowed shower every 48hrs, only allowed 3 meals a day so your fridge is only opened 3 times a day to reduce co2 otherwise that would be called remote slavery but instead we all know they will introduce carbox tax carbon credits system soon so people have to buy these carbon credits maybe like £10 carbon credit for 10grams co2 or something like that to offset their excess co2 emissions against recommended co2 government guidelines per person daily. That's the way that they will use to 'Control the people' cough cough sorry I meant 'Save the Planet' 

I wish I was rich like Greta Thunberg flying around in a private plane to different countries instead of typing this thread and worrying about money issues...

Do you really believe all that rubbish?

Anyone who tells you a smart meter can do that is lying to you.

CanNeverThinkOfAUsername

bery_451 said:

Astria said:

bery_451 said:

Mobtr said:

EDF still do Economy 7 but it will be a smart meter and will only be installed if there is communication to the meter. 

With regards to hardship funds, I believe they are paid to people in arrears to their energy company and it usually is the amount of the balance to clear it not to put you in credit. They tend to be paid to those who try to help themselves, not those who just don’t pay at all so you can’t just not pay your bills for months & get it cleared, you need to be seen to be trying 

Okay just to clarify there is no actual Economy 7 meter fitted in the property, but its now done on a smart meter? Do you mean communication to the Economy 7 meter or to a normal meter?

Do you happen to know any energy supplier that do Economy meters but not digitally through a smart meter? What it is I would like a smart meter but from what I seeing on TV about the government new proposals to reduce global warming co2 is to introduce a carbon tax, a carbon credits system by estimate 2025 where energy users buy carbon credits to offset their carbon footprint and smart meters knows how much carbon your property produces in g grams. For example showering twice a day produces more co2 than a person who showers once a day because gas boiler heats the water resulting in more emissions from the boiler so the government may introduce a law where you required to buy carbon credits to offset your excess co2 emissions. Maybe 1 carbon credit may offset 10grams of carbon dioxide co2, who knows what system the government has in place in future but what one thing that we all know and we can agree on is smart meters are called smart because they are smart for a reason.

Even if you don't have a smart meter, you will still be billed based on units used, so if you use 10 units of energy you will be billed the extra tax for the carbon emissions on those units regardless of meter type. In fact, you could end up paying more if you don't have a smart meter because you will eventually be put on legacy tariffs with higher costs than those available to smart meter users. This is already the case in some situations.

Smart meters know how many grams of co2 is emitted from your property, heck they smart enough to know what time you switched on your tv, or opened your fridge door hence they are called 'Smart' for a reason. Can traditional older meters work out how many showers you took that day, how many times you got the bottle of milk out from the fridge to make a cuppa? 

Greta Thunberg wants to save our planet from becoming a Dessert and stop our oceans from boiling up for the sake of our grandchildren and their children. I do not want to spread FUD or anything and I hope that the future wont end up like that with our planet turning into Mars so Governments are listening to her and do whatever it takes in the name of 'saving the planet' not 'Controlling every bit of out lives' 

We all know and we see on the TV everyday that the Government top priority now is Global Warming. I wished Global warming was in the UK now so we don't have to freeze to death, but we all know the government cant control every bit of your lives by saying for example with their new climate change legislation/laws, like you can only use the washing machine twice a week, only allowed shower every 48hrs, only allowed 3 meals a day so your fridge is only opened 3 times a day to reduce co2 otherwise that would be called remote slavery but instead we all know they will introduce carbox tax carbon credits system soon so people have to buy these carbon credits maybe like £10 carbon credit for 10grams co2 or something like that to offset their excess co2 emissions against recommended co2 government guidelines per person daily. That's the way that they will use to 'Control the people' cough cough sorry I meant 'Save the Planet' 

I wish I was rich like Greta Thunberg flying around in a private plane to different countries instead of typing this thread and worrying about money issues...

What on earth did i just read....... lol