UKPC ticket, not sure how and limited time to respond!

goonergaz70

OP updated with correct info, I am currently waiting on my POPLA number 27/02/2023 0 thanks to all the great advice given so far  

I have checked FAQs and gone through a few threads (and pages) to try and find similar to no avail.

Long story short,  Xmas eve the better half suggested a shopping trip to a nearby town. We parked in a car park which has a barrier permanently up, there are no machines (it's free for 2 hours and has a maximum stay of 2 hours).

Yesterday I got a ticket (dated 30th so deadline for the £60 increasing to £100 in a week away) - they have sent pics of my car arriving and leaving, it's all legit, I can't really argue. I wouldn't mind if it wasn't a genuine error...but (see below) the signage is absolute pants. 

goonergaz70 said:

So I revisited the car park - what a really crappy set of signage! lol

So when you enter the car park there is this sign, which is positioned perfectly so I actually CANNOT SEE IT due to it's position in relation to my car (part between the windscreen and door) blocking it to perfection...it's like it was designed to catch me out!


Then the signs in the car park that you can actually see don't make it clear what the terms are, simply stating 'no unauthorised parking' with minimal extremely small print details of what the terms are;

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Umkomaas

I guess I'm screwed?

Don't be silly, it's UKPC!

Get your initial appeal off (blue text template in the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post), then go through all the phases beyond. Plenty of help here provided you do your bit. 

Fruitcake

I don't understand your comment about limited time to respond as you have over two weeks by my calculations, 4 weeks from the date the NTK was issued.

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and the keeper's MP.

If a landowner cancellation is not forthcoming then the keeper should appeal as advised by Umkomaas. Get photos of the site and signage in readiness. UKPC signs are always inadequate and fail to meet the BPA CoP requirements, so there is at least one point for you to use at PoPLA as well as frustration of contract because the pay machine was obviously faulty.
We have seen a lot of cases where a payment is made but then mysteriously paid back to the motorists' card/bank account. These transactions don't show up on card/bank statements and appears to be a jolly wheeze set up by unregulated parking companies to ensure the motorist fails to pay.

Trainerman

If you have to pay in order to get out, then I would put it to them to tell me how I could possibly have got out without paying, particularly if you have to put a paid card in to raise the barrier. The answer might give you something to work with

goonergaz70

Umkomaas said:

I guess I'm screwed?

Don't be silly, it's UKPC!

Get your initial appeal off (blue text template in the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post), then go through all the phases beyond. Plenty of help here provided you do your bit. 

Ok thanks, will dig deeper - I just assumed as it was a multi-story in a town center it'd be all legit and I'd have to pay up the fine

Fruitcake said:

I don't understand your comment about limited time to respond as you have over two weeks by my calculations, 4 weeks from the date the NTK was issued.

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and the keeper's MP.

If a landowner cancellation is not forthcoming then the keeper should appeal as advised by Umkomaas. Get photos of the site and signage in readiness. UKPC signs are always inadequate and fail to meet the BPA CoP requirements, so there is at least one point for you to use at PoPLA as well as frustration of contract because the pay machine was obviously faulty.
We have seen a lot of cases where a payment is made but then mysteriously paid back to the motorists' card/bank account. These transactions don't show up on card/bank statements and appears to be a jolly wheeze set up by unregulated parking companies to ensure the motorist fails to pay.

Limited time as fine goes up from £60 to £100, I had assumed I would have to pay the fine (i.e. I was in the wrong). Regarding the land owner, not sure how I would find that out but assume it's the council...so the suggestion is send a complaint to both them and my local  MP? Interesting regarding payment refunds, do we know if calling the CC can give more insight into if I paid? Just really confused but it all TBH, I wish I'd got a receipt now - teach me.

Trainerman said:

If you have to pay in order to get out, then I would put it to them to tell me how I could possibly have got out without paying, particularly if you have to put a paid card in to raise the barrier. The answer might give you something to work with

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, there are machines as you leave enter the car park(on the way back to car), you enter your reg no. and then pay the fee. On exiting there is a barrier which raises to let you out (assume license plate recognition), my assumption would be that the barrier wouldn't raise if I hadn't paid, there are several barriers and pretty sure there was an intercom system...guess I need to return, take some pictures and notes.
  

Boat_to_Bolivia

One of the regular experts will be along soon to advise...but I can safely say, it is NOT a fine, so no calling it that!

goonergaz70

Ok, I'm an idiot - in my rage I got confused, this is actually a 3 hour 12 minute stay in a 2 hour maximum car park charge...so, can I still appeal? I'm off to do more digging... 

Fruitcake

It is not a fine.
You have 28 days to appeal from the issue date of the NTK. No other dates are relevant.

Of course you can still appeal. Use the standard appeal template in blue text from the NEWBIES sticky Announcement. If that fails then make a second stage appeal to PoPLA.


Use all the appeal points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES.

Not the landowner
No standing to issue charges in their own name
Get photos of the site and signage. All UKPC signs are inadequate and always fail to comply with the BPA CoP requirements.
PoFA failures if relevant
Payment system failure leading to a frustration of contract. It is reasonable to assume that the exit barrier would only lift if the correct tariff had been paid. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 section 69 supports this.
Anything else relevant

goonergaz70

Fruitcake said:

It is not a fine.
You have 28 days to appeal from the issue date of the NTK. No other dates are relevant.

Of course you can still appeal. Use the standard appeal template in blue text from the NEWBIES sticky Announcement. If that fails then make a second stage appeal to PoPLA.


Use all the appeal points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES.

Not the landowner
No standing to issue charges in their own name
Get photos of the site and signage. All UKPC signs are inadequate and always fail to comply with the BPA CoP requirements.
PoFA failures if relevant
Payment system failure leading to a frustration of contract. It is reasonable to assume that the exit barrier would only lift if the correct tariff had been paid. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 section 69 supports this.
Anything else relevant

Ok, so I don't mean to upset anyone - but Christmas eve was a busy day, we went to a couple of towns and car parks, also a lot has happened since then and busy with work etc. so memory is playing me up...but essentially ignore the OP, the car park barrier is permanently up on the one I got this parking charge and there are no machines (it's free for 2 hours and has a maximum stay of 2 hours).

From what I can gather my appeal will be based on signage - you're referring to the post entitle "SECOND STAGE APPEAL - POPLA OR IAS"?

I'll have a read up and visit the park taking pictures of signage. Thanks 

Coupon-mad

But don't expect the appeal to work.  There is no point trying POPLA.

That's not why you are sending a dispute, it is purely done so as not to ignore it entirely.

Come back if you get a court claim. No panicking about CCJs (doesn't happen as long as you follow all our advice) and no paying UKPC for a quiet life...please..,

goonergaz70

Coupon-mad said:

But don't expect the appeal to work.  There is no point trying POPLA.

That's not why you are sending a dispute, it is purely done do as not to ignore it entirely.

Come back if you get a court claim. No panicking about CCJs (doesn't happen as long as you follow all our advice) and no paying UKPC for a quiet life...please..,

I'm perplexed, if I'm not expecting the appeal to work why am I bothering? Excuse my ignorance