The Great Debate. EV's will cost less than petrol cars over 5 years.

wongataa

Grumpy_chap said:

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

It's lovely never needing to go to the petrol station too.

I'm always unsure whether this one really is a benefit.

Yes, I'd love not to have to go to the petrol station.
When I do, however, I sit in my car until I can use a pump, then drive up, and am undercover (dry) and well-lit even if it is cold and windy.  It is not every journey.

If I had an EV, at the end of the journey arriving home from work, I have to park-up and in the cold, dark, windy weather collect the cables from the car, plug in and then the next morning (or later in the night) take the wet cables, wrap them up, get my hands dirty and put the cables away in the boot somewhere, so everything is getting wet inside the car also.  Not something I really want to have to do at either end of the day when I have my suit on.  I guess it will be better if the EV has a frunk, so the cables can go in there leaving the actual boot clean.

The charging cable is connected to the charger.  You unhook it and plug it into the car, just like unhooking the nozzle at the petrol station and plugging it into the fuel filler hole.  You don't have to keep cables in the car and if you did you would not need to use them every time you wanted to charge the car.

JKenH

wongataa said:

Grumpy_chap said:

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

It's lovely never needing to go to the petrol station too.

I'm always unsure whether this one really is a benefit.

Yes, I'd love not to have to go to the petrol station.
When I do, however, I sit in my car until I can use a pump, then drive up, and am undercover (dry) and well-lit even if it is cold and windy.  It is not every journey.

If I had an EV, at the end of the journey arriving home from work, I have to park-up and in the cold, dark, windy weather collect the cables from the car, plug in and then the next morning (or later in the night) take the wet cables, wrap them up, get my hands dirty and put the cables away in the boot somewhere, so everything is getting wet inside the car also.  Not something I really want to have to do at either end of the day when I have my suit on.  I guess it will be better if the EV has a frunk, so the cables can go in there leaving the actual boot clean.

The charging cable is connected to the charger.  You unhook it and plug it into the car, just like unhooking the nozzle at the petrol station and plugging it into the fuel filler hole.  You don't have to keep cables in the car and if you did you would not need to use them every time you wanted to charge the car.

Not everyone has a tethered charging cable even if they have a dedicated home charger; mine was untethered. Many people use 3 pin granny chargers. If you are topping up at a destination (fast) charger you generally need your own cable. The one supplied with the car is usually around 6m long and invariably ends up trailing on the ground which is often wet and/or muddy. You then have to wind up a sometimes wet and dirty cable and put it in a bag or throw it in the boot or frunk loose. Not great if you are in a suit or smart dress. I bought a shorter 3m cable to avoid getting too messy. 

When using rapid chargers the cables are quite bulky and some people find them heavy and difficult to manoeuvre. Sadly, others often aren’t too careful putting them back in the holder and often you find them laying on the ground. 

As @Grumpy_chap points out petrol pumps are under cover whereas most chargers are not. When using rapid chargers it can often take a while to get the charge started and you can find yourself out in the rain for a few minutes. For some of us, filling up with petrol might be a once a month event. I did 486 miles on my last petrol fill up. 

That’s not intended as a moan about charging; I’m  just adding a bit of balance to the argument often made about how much more convenient it is to plug a car in than fill with petrol. 

DrEskimo

wongataa said:

Grumpy_chap said:

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

It's lovely never needing to go to the petrol station too.

I'm always unsure whether this one really is a benefit.

Yes, I'd love not to have to go to the petrol station.
When I do, however, I sit in my car until I can use a pump, then drive up, and am undercover (dry) and well-lit even if it is cold and windy.  It is not every journey.

If I had an EV, at the end of the journey arriving home from work, I have to park-up and in the cold, dark, windy weather collect the cables from the car, plug in and then the next morning (or later in the night) take the wet cables, wrap them up, get my hands dirty and put the cables away in the boot somewhere, so everything is getting wet inside the car also.  Not something I really want to have to do at either end of the day when I have my suit on.  I guess it will be better if the EV has a frunk, so the cables can go in there leaving the actual boot clean.

The charging cable is connected to the charger.  You unhook it and plug it into the car, just like unhooking the nozzle at the petrol station and plugging it into the fuel filler hole.  You don't have to keep cables in the car and if you did you would not need to use them every time you wanted to charge the car.

Yea mine is a tethered charging unit (Anderson A2), which wraps around the unit and gets hidden away. 

It takes me no longer than a minute, and if I was really in a rush I would just lay the cable on top of the unit rather than coil it around. I do get slightly wet hands when I do wrap it up I guess….

I usually plug mine in the night before, and then take advantage of the fact it’s plugged in to heat the cabin in the morning and have full battery with warm car before I set off.

silverwhistle

Grumpy_chap said:

If I had an EV, at the end of the journey arriving home from work, I have to park-up and in the cold, dark, windy weather collect the cables from the car, plug in and then the next morning (or later in the night) take the wet cables, wrap them up, get my hands dirty and put the cables away in the boot somewhere, so everything is getting wet inside the car also.  Not something I really want to have to do at either end of the day when I have my suit on.  I guess it will be better if the EV has a frunk, so the cables can go in there leaving the actual boot clean.

I have an EV and as it has a ~200 range I only have to charge on average once a week and I often even have enough flexibility to do it either when the weather is OK and/or the grid is using lots of green energy. I certainly wouldn't plug in when I was wearing my best clothes if that was a worry, but as I keep my untethered cable just inside the front door the cables start out clean and dry. Takes <1min to plug in and less to unplug.

On the road I grant you the situation if you need to charge may be more problematical, but I wouldn't try and look for difficulties where they don't exist.

Which reminds me, there is plunge pricing on Agile tonight and although I'm not still on it to benefit wind is plentiful so I'm going to nip out and plug in.

Edit: not a bad guess on timing. Put the kettle on, started the timer, went to plug in and got back to the kettle on 1.00.18!

michaels

Our cars charge either in the garage on the tethered v2h charger which means no getting wet at all or on the granny which has the end poked out under the garage door, takes perhaps 10s extra compared to getting out of the car into the house.  Neither cable is ever picked up or touched other than the connector.  You realise that petrol stations are really cold, smelly, unpleasant places if you don't need to use them ever.

Petriix

There are a small set of circumstances where an untethered home charger would make sense (if you had an old type 1 EV or you use an Ohme smart cable) otherwise tethered is way more convenient. It really is a stretch of the imagination to claim plugging in is somehow less convenient than filling up with petrol.

I can honestly say that I spend less time now in total doing the physical steps of charging than I previously spent filling up my diesel car. The joy of charging is that you can do other stuff while it's happening; mostly sleeping but also shopping, watching a film, eating etc.). Even if it's only 5 minutes to fill up, you still have to stand there holding the nozzle like a wally. 

forgotmyname

Assume thats just over 5000 miles in total?  Or do you have off peak charging?

Comparing yours to buying something cheaper... Just my case which will vary for everyone.


Bought my 2013 car in Nov 2018 for £3150 fully serviced even though it was not due at the time, garage thought I was mad but
happy to take my money.   Autotrader now values it at £2550.  (High miles)

5181 miles would cost me £874 at current prices. Tax £30 a year (Euro 5 Diesel).

4 Services done by myself, oil & filter x4 = £114 in total. I buy the oil/filters when discounted. Air/PollenDiesel filters £51.87 x1.
Almost forgot I put a new battery on it.  £112.  Not needed any tyres or brakes. 4 x MOT's £40 each.

Ignoring insurance but its close to yours,

Depreciation £600 using your insurance cost £1150.    Total cost £3021.87

Think I have my numbers right?  Let me know if I made a mistake.  These are just my figures which is easily skewed with a breakdown
or large repair bill or something newer with higher depreciation.  It may shock some people if they stop and work out exactly how
much their car costs each year.  I don't drive into the city with the low emissions zone so thats a bonus for me.

A magazine many years ago had a short article about a guy who bought older cars and his brother in law saying why don't you buy a
decent car you can easily afford it.  He explained that he was better off because he didnt waste money on a new car every year.

Herzlos

Grumpy_chap said:

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

It's lovely never needing to go to the petrol station too.

I'm always unsure whether this one really is a benefit.

Yes, I'd love not to have to go to the petrol station.
When I do, however, I sit in my car until I can use a pump, then drive up, and am undercover (dry) and well-lit even if it is cold and windy.  It is not every journey.

If I had an EV, at the end of the journey arriving home from work, I have to park-up and in the cold, dark, windy weather collect the cables from the car, plug in and then the next morning (or later in the night) take the wet cables, wrap them up, get my hands dirty and put the cables away in the boot somewhere, so everything is getting wet inside the car also.  Not something I really want to have to do at either end of the day when I have my suit on.  I guess it will be better if the EV has a frunk, so the cables can go in there leaving the actual boot clean.

Please do not get me wrong on this, I really do want my next car to be an EV if possible.  I am genuinely unsure whether faffing around with cables before and after every journey to work really is easier or timesaving in total compared to a once-weekly (perhaps even twice-weekly) petrol fill.

Filling up at petrol stations is barbaric - you've got to queue, possible for quite a while if the person in front is doing a shop, often need to go out of your way to do it, it's not that wind or waterproof, you need to stand in an oily puddle the whole time, people have touched everything after touching god knows what, then you need to use a card machine or go inside.

What makes you think that you'd need to charge an EV every day on getting home? Most people would need to do it once a week and it's not that hard to do. If it's raining you can always park up and pop out later to charge it.


You're really trying so hard to make EV's seem like a bad idea. Why?

Jenni_D

michaels said:

Our cars charge either in the garage on the tethered v2h charger 

You mean a Type 2 charge cable ... V2H means Vehicle To Home (a way of powering your house from your car).  

Jenni_D

silverwhistle said:

Grumpy_chap said:

If I had an EV, at the end of the journey arriving home from work, I have to park-up and in the cold, dark, windy weather collect the cables from the car, plug in and then the next morning (or later in the night) take the wet cables, wrap them up, get my hands dirty and put the cables away in the boot somewhere, so everything is getting wet inside the car also.  Not something I really want to have to do at either end of the day when I have my suit on.  I guess it will be better if the EV has a frunk, so the cables can go in there leaving the actual boot clean.

I have an EV and as it has a ~200 range I only have to charge on average once a week

Do you have the MG4 SE SR? I'm getting about 170 miles range in mine at the moment (140 miles during really cold weather), and expect circa 200+ miles in the summer. If you're getting 200 miles right now then you may have the SE LR or Trophy.

PS - are you a member over on MGEVs.com?