Why are Energy Prices not falling?

bristolleedsfan

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Chrysalis said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Chrysalis said:

tlcgrantham said:

MattMattMattUK said:

SnakePlissken said:

Prices for day ahead gas now down to pre ukraine war level

UK gas prices have also dropped back from their highs earlier this year. The day-ahead gas price closed at 155p per therm yesterday, compared with 200p/therm at the start of 2022, and over 500p/therm in August.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/063732ceadf8eb30acff2e1c9159b6ddcf7a1397/0_0_697_380/master/697.jpg?width=700&quality=45&dpr=2&s=none


https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2022/dec/29/european-natural-gas-prices-drop-rouble-uk-mortgage-oil-china-covid-business-live

Day ahead prices are irrelevant when it comes to costs paid by consumers, amounts bought on day ahead are less than 1% of supply. The gap between Christmas and New Year, when much of industry is shut down and many large users are offline means day ahead prices always fall as it is highly unlikely that the networks will need to purchase gas as very short notice, even more with the temperature having risen considerably. Sterling is also 18% lower than before the Russian invasion of Ukraine, so even a flat USD price means a sizeable increase for the UK.

Octopus Tracker customers do benefit from “Day Ahead” prices. My Gas Tracker price today is 7.2p/kwh and Electricity Tracker is around 12.00p/kwh. 🤗

Apparently we are irrelevant.

We are irrelevant to the standard variable tariff and the price cap set by Ofgem.

We are only really relevant to Octopus showing how it can be done.  And these types of tariff wouldn't suit everyone anyway.  Tbh if we were paying full Tracker price (capped 55p for elec) without the EPG discount we would have had to seriously consider coming off.

Mine is 35p for reference.

Irrelevant was the wrong word to use, never agreed with the assumptions that a minority of people dont matter.

Not applicable to SVR would have been a better phrase.

 The most recent versions have Octopus caps of 100p/kWh, though it seems Tracker is still withdrawn.

Tracker tariff has been available again since 29 November ......

https://octopus.energy/tracker-faqs/

Apodemus

Alnat1 said:

It's been quite windy so the turbines are generating a lot of electricity. This means less demand on gas to generate electricity and the day ahead prices drop.

It's also been very cold, so demand has been higher than normal.

bristolleedsfan

Apodemus said:

Alnat1 said:

It's been quite windy so the turbines are generating a lot of electricity. This means less demand on gas to generate electricity and the day ahead prices drop.

It's also been very cold, so demand has been higher than normal.

Has been mild since at least 19 December both in UK and Europe hence current lower day ahead prices

https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1604777916843204611

"What a weather change in the UK: very windy and milder"

https://twitter.com/SStapczynski/status/1607659652371845120

"Europe has been particularly lucky with weather Mild weather, coupled with demand destruction across industries, is helping to push down European gas prices"

agentcain

Just proves the point though, energy generators will be making a huge profit again.
But don't feel sorry for the energy suppliers as all left have some form of generator backing them up. 

Seems they like having the cake and eating it too. Everyone is quick to justify their high prices by assuming they have "long contracts" and "buying a year in advance". And yet somehow those contracts cannot be invalidated for the benefit of the people.
Where were those contracts of all those suppliers that went bust? What about the contracts of those who fixed with those suppliers only to have their contract invalidated when they were forced to go to a SOLR? 

spot1034

agentcain said:

Just proves the point though, energy generators will be making a huge profit again.
But don't feel sorry for the energy suppliers as all left have some form of generator backing them up. 

Seems they like having the cake and eating it too. Everyone is quick to justify their high prices by assuming they have "long contracts" and "buying a year in advance". And yet somehow those contracts cannot be invalidated for the benefit of the people.
Where were those contracts of all those suppliers that went bust? What about the contracts of those who fixed with those suppliers only to have their contract invalidated when they were forced to go to a SOLR? 

Many of the companies that went bust didn't have such contracts - they were buying on the spot market and got caught out when prices rose. That is why they went bust.

GingerTim

How do you propose forcing a bankrupt company to fulfil a contract, or forcing another company to take on another's contract?

agentcain

GingerTim said:

How do you propose forcing a bankrupt company to fulfil a contract, or forcing another company to take on another's contract?

The same way everyone else seems to be forced, by legislation.
You just make it so others who want to trade are forced to honour contracts set by failed suppliers, if they become SOLR.
As for the bankrupt company, go after their shareholders and make them pay back the credits. Have you seen what the owners of Bulb are doing? They have a brand new company, jumping on the bandwagon of net-zero, no doubt trying to get a piece of the current action.

spot1034 said:

agentcain said:

Just proves the point though, energy generators will be making a huge profit again.
But don't feel sorry for the energy suppliers as all left have some form of generator backing them up. 

Seems they like having the cake and eating it too. Everyone is quick to justify their high prices by assuming they have "long contracts" and "buying a year in advance". And yet somehow those contracts cannot be invalidated for the benefit of the people.
Where were those contracts of all those suppliers that went bust? What about the contracts of those who fixed with those suppliers only to have their contract invalidated when they were forced to go to a SOLR? 

Many of the companies that went bust didn't have such contracts - they were buying on the spot market and got caught out when prices rose. That is why they went bust.

Which is why their shareholders should be penalized, alongside the existing suppliers who do, according to what you're saying, have contracts yet somehow oppose the idea of ring-fencing customer's credit (which should be expected since they very well plan for the estimated annual consumption of the customer). 

EssexHebridean

And then when no other supplier is willing to become a SOLR because they know it will risk bankrupting their business too, and the lights start going out for customers of those who failed, what is your plan then? 

[Deleted User]

spot1034 said:

agentcain said:

Just proves the point though, energy generators will be making a huge profit again.
But don't feel sorry for the energy suppliers as all left have some form of generator backing them up. 

Seems they like having the cake and eating it too. Everyone is quick to justify their high prices by assuming they have "long contracts" and "buying a year in advance". And yet somehow those contracts cannot be invalidated for the benefit of the people.
Where were those contracts of all those suppliers that went bust? What about the contracts of those who fixed with those suppliers only to have their contract invalidated when they were forced to go to a SOLR? 

Many of the companies that went bust didn't have such contracts - they were buying on the spot market and got caught out when prices rose. That is why they went bust.

Zog went bust because it’s wholesaler - the company that it hedged with - went bust. 

spot1034

[Deleted User] said:

spot1034 said:

agentcain said:

Just proves the point though, energy generators will be making a huge profit again.
But don't feel sorry for the energy suppliers as all left have some form of generator backing them up. 

Seems they like having the cake and eating it too. Everyone is quick to justify their high prices by assuming they have "long contracts" and "buying a year in advance". And yet somehow those contracts cannot be invalidated for the benefit of the people.
Where were those contracts of all those suppliers that went bust? What about the contracts of those who fixed with those suppliers only to have their contract invalidated when they were forced to go to a SOLR? 

Many of the companies that went bust didn't have such contracts - they were buying on the spot market and got caught out when prices rose. That is why they went bust.

Zog went bust because it’s wholesaler - the company that it hedged with - went bust. 

Yes I was with Zog myself, and felt sorry for them as they had run their business more responsibly than some of the other suppliers who failed. However they were still faced with the prospect of being forced to sell at a loss to an increasing number of customers who were falling on to the SVT as their fixes came to an end. As a small company I'm not sure how long they could have continued like this.