Parcelforce lost parcel neighbour

powerful_Rogue

user1977 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

sukh9292 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

When I accept something on behalf of a neighbour (and I do so very often) I take very good care of it because it doesn't belong to me.

At the end of the day, if the courier delivered it to your neighbour then it's your neighbour who is responsible for it - either to you directly or potentially to your seller if you take it up with the seller and they want to pursue your neighbour.

I suspect you may have to write it off if you don't want to ruin your relation ship with your neighbour...

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

When I accept something on behalf of a neighbour (and I do so very often) I take very good care of it because it doesn't belong to me.

At the end of the day, if the courier delivered it to your neighbour then it's your neighbour who is responsible for it - either to you directly or potentially to your seller if you take it up with the seller and they want to pursue your neighbour.

I suspect you may have to write it off if you don't want to ruin your relation ship with your neighbour...

I dont think they will pursue with neighbour, they claimed they cant do nothing about as this is a civil matter. well i guess i'll try with bank otherwise i will just take the loss.

Food for thought. If they did contact your neighbour as that is where it was delivered and their GPS etc shows that, and your neighbour says 'I'm so sorry, we took the item in but lost it. We told @sukh9292 that' - Could that then open up a potential criminal case for fraud by false representation?

Even if the police were interested in a dispute about a missing parcel (which they won't be...) I would think it reasonably easy for the OP to throw in some reasonable doubt.

Neighbours says they received the item but lost it.

Delivery companies GPS/systems back this up.

OP says they never received it, nor did their neighbour.

Fraud by false representation

(1)A person is in breach of this section if he—
(a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and
(b)intends, by making the representation—
(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or
(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

When you say reasonable easy for the OP to throw in some reasonable doubt - you mean lie?

user1977

powerful_Rogue said:

user1977 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

sukh9292 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

When I accept something on behalf of a neighbour (and I do so very often) I take very good care of it because it doesn't belong to me.

At the end of the day, if the courier delivered it to your neighbour then it's your neighbour who is responsible for it - either to you directly or potentially to your seller if you take it up with the seller and they want to pursue your neighbour.

I suspect you may have to write it off if you don't want to ruin your relation ship with your neighbour...

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

When I accept something on behalf of a neighbour (and I do so very often) I take very good care of it because it doesn't belong to me.

At the end of the day, if the courier delivered it to your neighbour then it's your neighbour who is responsible for it - either to you directly or potentially to your seller if you take it up with the seller and they want to pursue your neighbour.

I suspect you may have to write it off if you don't want to ruin your relation ship with your neighbour...

I dont think they will pursue with neighbour, they claimed they cant do nothing about as this is a civil matter. well i guess i'll try with bank otherwise i will just take the loss.

Food for thought. If they did contact your neighbour as that is where it was delivered and their GPS etc shows that, and your neighbour says 'I'm so sorry, we took the item in but lost it. We told @sukh9292 that' - Could that then open up a potential criminal case for fraud by false representation?

Even if the police were interested in a dispute about a missing parcel (which they won't be...) I would think it reasonably easy for the OP to throw in some reasonable doubt.

Neighbours says they received the item but lost it.

Delivery companies GPS/systems back this up.

It might back up the delivery, not whether the neighbour lost it, and whether or not the neighbour had told the OP that they had lost it is going to come down to the neighbour's word against the OP's.

Gavin83

powerful_Rogue said:

user1977 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

sukh9292 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

When I accept something on behalf of a neighbour (and I do so very often) I take very good care of it because it doesn't belong to me.

At the end of the day, if the courier delivered it to your neighbour then it's your neighbour who is responsible for it - either to you directly or potentially to your seller if you take it up with the seller and they want to pursue your neighbour.

I suspect you may have to write it off if you don't want to ruin your relation ship with your neighbour...

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

When I accept something on behalf of a neighbour (and I do so very often) I take very good care of it because it doesn't belong to me.

At the end of the day, if the courier delivered it to your neighbour then it's your neighbour who is responsible for it - either to you directly or potentially to your seller if you take it up with the seller and they want to pursue your neighbour.

I suspect you may have to write it off if you don't want to ruin your relation ship with your neighbour...

I dont think they will pursue with neighbour, they claimed they cant do nothing about as this is a civil matter. well i guess i'll try with bank otherwise i will just take the loss.

Food for thought. If they did contact your neighbour as that is where it was delivered and their GPS etc shows that, and your neighbour says 'I'm so sorry, we took the item in but lost it. We told @sukh9292 that' - Could that then open up a potential criminal case for fraud by false representation?

Even if the police were interested in a dispute about a missing parcel (which they won't be...) I would think it reasonably easy for the OP to throw in some reasonable doubt.

OP says they never received it, nor did their neighbour.

Why would they say this? (well the second bit anyway)

They don't need to lie. All they need to say is they never received the parcel, which is true, they didn't. The contract wasn't to deliver it to the neighbour, it was to deliver it to the OP and they failed to do this. If this was a UK company and the OP took them to court they would win and rightly so. The OP didn't tell them they could leave it with some neighbour and it isn't the retailers or couriers place to make that decision on their customers behalf. I know a lot of retailers will try and make it the customers problem in this situation but they've no right to.

The only element that makes this complicated is that they aren't a UK company. This alone makes it unviable to pursue. Even if the OP was willing to pursue their neighbour I doubt this would produce a result either.

powerful_Rogue

Gavin83 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

user1977 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

sukh9292 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

When I accept something on behalf of a neighbour (and I do so very often) I take very good care of it because it doesn't belong to me.

At the end of the day, if the courier delivered it to your neighbour then it's your neighbour who is responsible for it - either to you directly or potentially to your seller if you take it up with the seller and they want to pursue your neighbour.

I suspect you may have to write it off if you don't want to ruin your relation ship with your neighbour...

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

When I accept something on behalf of a neighbour (and I do so very often) I take very good care of it because it doesn't belong to me.

At the end of the day, if the courier delivered it to your neighbour then it's your neighbour who is responsible for it - either to you directly or potentially to your seller if you take it up with the seller and they want to pursue your neighbour.

I suspect you may have to write it off if you don't want to ruin your relation ship with your neighbour...

I dont think they will pursue with neighbour, they claimed they cant do nothing about as this is a civil matter. well i guess i'll try with bank otherwise i will just take the loss.

Food for thought. If they did contact your neighbour as that is where it was delivered and their GPS etc shows that, and your neighbour says 'I'm so sorry, we took the item in but lost it. We told @sukh9292 that' - Could that then open up a potential criminal case for fraud by false representation?

Even if the police were interested in a dispute about a missing parcel (which they won't be...) I would think it reasonably easy for the OP to throw in some reasonable doubt.

OP says they never received it, nor did their neighbour.

Why would they say this? (well the second bit anyway)

They don't need to lie. All they need to say is they never received the parcel, which is true, they didn't. The contract wasn't to deliver it to the neighbour, it was to deliver it to the OP and they failed to do this. If this was a UK company and the OP took them to court they would win and rightly so. The OP didn't tell them they could leave it with some neighbour and it isn't the retailers or couriers place to make that decision on their customers behalf. I know a lot of retailers will try and make it the customers problem in this situation but they've no right to.

The only element that makes this complicated is that they aren't a UK company. This alone makes it unviable to pursue. Even if the OP was willing to pursue their neighbour I doubt this would produce a result either.

Company contacts PF and ask where the parcel went and PF tell them it was delivered to the neighbour. OP is asked whether he has checked with his neighbour - what should he respond?

SergeantBaker

powerful_Rogue said:

sukh9292 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

When I accept something on behalf of a neighbour (and I do so very often) I take very good care of it because it doesn't belong to me.

At the end of the day, if the courier delivered it to your neighbour then it's your neighbour who is responsible for it - either to you directly or potentially to your seller if you take it up with the seller and they want to pursue your neighbour.

I suspect you may have to write it off if you don't want to ruin your relation ship with your neighbour...

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

When I accept something on behalf of a neighbour (and I do so very often) I take very good care of it because it doesn't belong to me.

At the end of the day, if the courier delivered it to your neighbour then it's your neighbour who is responsible for it - either to you directly or potentially to your seller if you take it up with the seller and they want to pursue your neighbour.

I suspect you may have to write it off if you don't want to ruin your relation ship with your neighbour...

I dont think they will pursue with neighbour, they claimed they cant do nothing about as this is a civil matter. well i guess i'll try with bank otherwise i will just take the loss.

Food for thought. If they did contact your neighbour as that is where it was delivered and their GPS etc shows that, and your neighbour says 'I'm so sorry, we took the item in but lost it. We told @sukh9292 that' - Could that then open up a potential criminal case for fraud by false representation?

Where is the false representation?

Manxman_in_exile

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

What strikes me most about this is that the neighbour (according to the OP's account anyway) doesn't deny that the package was left with them.  Their first reaction appears to have been that they were concerned that they may have thrown it away or taken it to their new house...

If I'd been the neighbour and I didn't know anything about the delivery my first reaction would have been "They never delivered it to me!" and not "Oh dear - what could I have done with it?"

If the neighbour hasn't outright denied receiving the parcel (and the OP's account seems remarkable to me for the absence of such a denial by the neighbour) then I don't know what the OP should do.  If I were the OP I'm not certain that I would feel entirely comfortable in these circumstances trying either to claim a chargeback or to complain to the trader.

If the delivery company are lying, then fair enough.  But if I'm not sure whether the neighbour has just "lost" it, then I'm not so clear...

I agree the current law about "delivering into the physical possession etc" makes all this very difficult for everybody.

Gavin83

powerful_Rogue said:

Gavin83 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

user1977 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

sukh9292 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

When I accept something on behalf of a neighbour (and I do so very often) I take very good care of it because it doesn't belong to me.

At the end of the day, if the courier delivered it to your neighbour then it's your neighbour who is responsible for it - either to you directly or potentially to your seller if you take it up with the seller and they want to pursue your neighbour.

I suspect you may have to write it off if you don't want to ruin your relation ship with your neighbour...

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

When I accept something on behalf of a neighbour (and I do so very often) I take very good care of it because it doesn't belong to me.

At the end of the day, if the courier delivered it to your neighbour then it's your neighbour who is responsible for it - either to you directly or potentially to your seller if you take it up with the seller and they want to pursue your neighbour.

I suspect you may have to write it off if you don't want to ruin your relation ship with your neighbour...

I dont think they will pursue with neighbour, they claimed they cant do nothing about as this is a civil matter. well i guess i'll try with bank otherwise i will just take the loss.

Food for thought. If they did contact your neighbour as that is where it was delivered and their GPS etc shows that, and your neighbour says 'I'm so sorry, we took the item in but lost it. We told @sukh9292 that' - Could that then open up a potential criminal case for fraud by false representation?

Even if the police were interested in a dispute about a missing parcel (which they won't be...) I would think it reasonably easy for the OP to throw in some reasonable doubt.

OP says they never received it, nor did their neighbour.

Why would they say this? (well the second bit anyway)

They don't need to lie. All they need to say is they never received the parcel, which is true, they didn't. The contract wasn't to deliver it to the neighbour, it was to deliver it to the OP and they failed to do this. If this was a UK company and the OP took them to court they would win and rightly so. The OP didn't tell them they could leave it with some neighbour and it isn't the retailers or couriers place to make that decision on their customers behalf. I know a lot of retailers will try and make it the customers problem in this situation but they've no right to.

The only element that makes this complicated is that they aren't a UK company. This alone makes it unviable to pursue. Even if the OP was willing to pursue their neighbour I doubt this would produce a result either.

Company contacts PF and ask where the parcel went and PF tell them it was delivered to the neighbour. OP is asked whether he has checked with his neighbour - what should he respond?

That the neighbour says they don't have it, which once again isn't lying.

In all honesty as long as the OP doesn't lie the answer is somewhat irrelevant anyway. It's not the OP's job to chase the neighbour. It's the retailers job to deliver the parcel to the requested location and they've failed to do this. While I understand peoples stance to an extent on this thread there is some terrible advice here and the responsibility still lies with the retailer. Were this to go to court the OP would almost certainly win.

I live on a quiet close in a low crime area and have one of those outside cupboard things next to my front door. If we're not in 90% of the time the parcel gets left in there, even if a signature is required or it's high value. I don't mind this but I certainly haven't given permission for it. If I arrived home and my £500 parcel which was meant to be in there was missing I'd 100% pursue the retailer for this and rightly so. Thankfully so far it hasn't happened.

I agree with the earlier suggestion that there's a bit of a gap in the consumer rights legislation here. All retailers should ask you where, if anywhere at all, the parcel can be left if you're not in. If you nominate a place and there's a problem then it's on the customer. Some retailers/couriers already do this but only a handful and it certainly isn't a requirement.

Ath_Wat

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

What strikes me most about this is that the neighbour (according to the OP's account anyway) doesn't deny that the package was left with them.  Their first reaction appears to have been that they were concerned that they may have thrown it away or taken it to their new house...

If I'd been the neighbour and I didn't know anything about the delivery my first reaction would have been "They never delivered it to me!" and not "Oh dear - what could I have done with it?"

If the neighbour hasn't outright denied receiving the parcel (and the OP's account seems remarkable to me for the absence of such a denial by the neighbour) then I don't know what the OP should do.  If I were the OP I'm not certain that I would feel entirely comfortable in these circumstances trying either to claim a chargeback or to complain to the trader.

If the delivery company are lying, then fair enough.  But if I'm not sure whether the neighbour has just "lost" it, then I'm not so clear...

I agree the current law about "delivering into the physical possession etc" makes all this very difficult for everybody.

What is remarkable?  The neighbour took it, and lost it.  That's not in question.  The neighbour is happy to admit this to the OP.

There's no suggestion the delivery company are lying.

Ath_Wat

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

You may be better organised than most people, but I can assure I have no problems believing that people could lose stuff when moving, whether their own, or somebody else's.  I've done it often enough myself with my own property.  Sometimes it turns up years later, sometimes it doesn't.

Manxman_in_exile

Ath_Wat said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

What strikes me most about this is that the neighbour (according to the OP's account anyway) doesn't deny that the package was left with them.  Their first reaction appears to have been that they were concerned that they may have thrown it away or taken it to their new house...

If I'd been the neighbour and I didn't know anything about the delivery my first reaction would have been "They never delivered it to me!" and not "Oh dear - what could I have done with it?"

If the neighbour hasn't outright denied receiving the parcel (and the OP's account seems remarkable to me for the absence of such a denial by the neighbour) then I don't know what the OP should do.  If I were the OP I'm not certain that I would feel entirely comfortable in these circumstances trying either to claim a chargeback or to complain to the trader.

If the delivery company are lying, then fair enough.  But if I'm not sure whether the neighbour has just "lost" it, then I'm not so clear...

I agree the current law about "delivering into the physical possession etc" makes all this very difficult for everybody.

What is remarkable?  The neighbour took it, and lost it.  That's not in question.  The neighbour is happy to admit this to the OP....

Apologies if I've missed it but I've not read that the neighbour has actually admitted accepting the parcel.  Have I missed that?

The OP (as far as I can recall) has not explicitly stated whether the neighbour has admitted to accepting the parcel or not.  All they've said is that they went into panic mode.  One could infer from that that the neighbour admits receivng the parcel, but as I suspect English may not be the OP's first language, that might not be what the OP actually meant or what their neighbour said.

Also, I'm not saying that there is any suggestion that the delivery company is lying.  My point is that assuming that the delivery company is telling the truth and that the parcel was delivered into the neighbour's safekeeping (and the neighbour has lost it), then I don't think that the OP has a strong case on moral or ethical grounds to claim off either their bank or the trader, irrespective of what the law says...

Ath_Wat said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

sukh9292 said:

... Neighbour were in middle of translocating and doing some home improvement and when i asked about the parcel they went into panic mode as they realized they might throw it away in the skip or took it along to new house, they double checked but couldnt find it anywhere ( they been taking my deliveries for 3/4 years and they are good people)...

I don't want to be unkind to your neighbours, but I'm a bit confused to understand how they could have accepted your parcel and then gone on to lose track of it.

Even if they were in the middle of moving and(?) carrying out home improvements I don't see how they could have binned it without realising or even just lost it.

You may be better organised than most people, but I can assure I have no problems believing that people could lose stuff when moving, whether their own, or somebody else's.  I've done it often enough myself with my own property.  Sometimes it turns up years later, sometimes it doesn't.

Perhaps I am better organised than most people, but I lose stuff belonging to me all the time.  However, I've never lost anything that belonged to somebody else or that had been delivered into my care on behalf of a neighbour.  Because it doesn't belong to me I would take better care of it than I would one of my own possessions.

And if I'd lost something in the circumstances described by the OP, then I'd be offering to reimburse the OP if it had clearly been my fault.