Loft conversion- damage to the property due to heavy rain

Bendy_House

LP only take on cases they are more than 50% confident of winning. I'm just saying that if LP strongly agrees with CAB, then that's quite a bargaining tool when talking with the builder.

DanDare999

Bendy_House said:

LP only take on cases they are more than 50% confident of winning. I'm just saying that if LP strongly agrees with CAB, then that's quite a bargaining tool when talking with the builder.

Still not banged to right though. 

I thought the other condition was they can see there are funds to be recovered if successful. At least it was when I used them. 

SoJacob

Thank you all for taking the effort to reply. I have read them all and will discuss with my husband. 

Our builder left early so couldn’t talk to him in person. We requested to see him tomorrow. He told us he got something to discuss with us. We have a feeling that he wanted to do increase the quote 😳(I hope not). When we first discussed this project we told him that we do not have the fund at the time but if we are able to get loan then we can go ahead. We have about the funding.. I really hope he don’t put us in a financial crisis ☹️.. so worried 

Bendy_House

Called your LP yet?

Bendy_House

DanDare999 said:

Bendy_House said:

LP only take on cases they are more than 50% confident of winning. I'm just saying that if LP strongly agrees with CAB, then that's quite a bargaining tool when talking with the builder.

Still not banged to right though. 

I thought the other condition was they can see there are funds to be recovered if successful. At least it was when I used them. 

Of course not BtoR.

I don't know about that other condition - it didn't appear to be a condition for me when I 'started' the process, once against a car dealer, and another against a neighbour for criminal property damage. I didn't need to pursue either to 'action', but in both cases my (different) LPs both gave the required guidance after concluding I did have a valid case; how to start the ball rolling; quotes to obtain, initial letters to write, etc. until both situations reached the point where they weren't required (and the threat of LP is what tipped the car dealer). At no point was I asked about the financial ability of the potential defendants to pay. (Isn't that a separate issue anyway? This is about winning the claim).

All I'm saying is, if SoJ's LP confirms what CAB suggests, albeit in more measured terms (and there's every chance they will - the builder did mess up after all), then that will obviously help the OP in any negotiation. "I have taken advice from my LP, and they state very clearly that this is a case of xyz, and that they'd be prepared to act on my behalf if needed. But, I'd much rather not go there - it'll be a horrible, long-drawn-out process for us all - so I'm hoping we can arrive at an acceptable solution for us both so we can move forward, get this job done, and not have any nastiness hanging over us."

SoJ, if they try and increase the quote ("allow 10% for additions"), then they'd need to justify it as an 'addition'. Them causing damage to your house is NOT 'addition'.

GET LP GUIDANCE NOW. You ideally do not want to be in the position of saying, "Hmm, I don't know - we'd need to ask our LP...", but more, "Sorry, that isn't reasonable or acceptable because our LP made it clear...", and you'll know what the next step to take is.

Call them up, explain the situation with ONLY the pertinent facts (don't waste time on trauma), and explain what the builder has said so far. Add that they want to talk it over with you, and you wish to be prepared with the legal facts. 'So what we need to know is': a), are they liable? 100%? As near as? How 'protected' are we? b) what do we need to say or do to them? c) and then some pre-empts; "If they say this, what do we say to them?" "If they claim this, how do we counter?"

Section62

SoJacob said:

Our builder left early so couldn’t talk to him in person. We requested to see him tomorrow. He told us he got something to discuss with us. We have a feeling that he wanted to do increase the quote 😳(I hope not). When we first discussed this project we told him that we do not have the fund at the time but if we are able to get loan then we can go ahead. We have about the funding.. I really hope he don’t put us in a financial crisis ☹️.. so worried 

If you think you are likely to get into a conversation where the builder is asking for more money than you can afford then you need to have a pre-prepared list of 'must-haves', things that you absolutely need the builder to finish asap, with a separate list of the things you could live in the property without.

For example, it is an absolute 'must' that the builder gets the shell of the house weathertight again. That needs to be top of the list, and the thing the builder is absolutely focussed on.

Then look at what things you need to live in the property.  For example, having enough rooms for family members to sleep in, taking into account any options for children to share a room if necessary.

Take a hard look at everything else - for example whether you need ensuites to be fitted out and finished off.

In your discussions with the builder you can then aim to get them to agree to complete the job for the original price, but have the ability to agree to knock items off the list in return for the builder either sticking to the price, or offering a price reduction.  It isn't ideal to have rooms unfinished, but better than the relationship with the builder breaking down completely and leaving you with a roofless house in the middle of winter.

Bendy_House

Section62 said:

SoJacob said:

Our builder left early so couldn’t talk to him in person. We requested to see him tomorrow. He told us he got something to discuss with us. We have a feeling that he wanted to do increase the quote 😳(I hope not). When we first discussed this project we told him that we do not have the fund at the time but if we are able to get loan then we can go ahead. We have about the funding.. I really hope he don’t put us in a financial crisis ☹️.. so worried 

If you think you are likely to get into a conversation where the builder is asking for more money than you can afford then you need to have a pre-prepared list of 'must-haves', things that you absolutely need the builder to finish asap, with a separate list of the things you could live in the property without.

For example, it is an absolute 'must' that the builder gets the shell of the house weathertight again. That needs to be top of the list, and the thing the builder is absolutely focussed on.

Then look at what things you need to live in the property.  For example, having enough rooms for family members to sleep in, taking into account any options for children to share a room if necessary.

Take a hard look at everything else - for example whether you need ensuites to be fitted out and finished off.

In your discussions with the builder you can then aim to get them to agree to complete the job for the original price, but have the ability to agree to knock items off the list in return for the builder either sticking to the price, or offering a price reduction.  It isn't ideal to have rooms unfinished, but better than the relationship with the builder breaking down completely and leaving you with a roofless house in the middle of winter.

On what basis could the builder legitimately increase his quote?

DanDare999

Bendy_House said:

DanDare999 said:

Bendy_House said:

LP only take on cases they are more than 50% confident of winning. I'm just saying that if LP strongly agrees with CAB, then that's quite a bargaining tool when talking with the builder.

Still not banged to right though. 

I thought the other condition was they can see there are funds to be recovered if successful. At least it was when I used them. 

Of course not BtoR.

I don't know about that other condition - it didn't appear to be a condition for me when I 'started' the process, once against a car dealer, and another against a neighbour for criminal property damage. I didn't need to pursue either to 'action', but in both cases my (different) LPs both gave the required guidance after concluding I did have a valid case; how to start the ball rolling; quotes to obtain, initial letters to write, etc. until both situations reached the point where they weren't required (and the threat of LP is what tipped the car dealer). At no point was I asked about the financial ability of the potential defendants to pay. (Isn't that a separate issue anyway? This is about winning the claim).

All I'm saying is, if SoJ's LP confirms what CAB suggests, albeit in more measured terms (and there's every chance they will - the builder did mess up after all), then that will obviously help the OP in any negotiation. "I have taken advice from my LP, and they state very clearly that this is a case of xyz, and that they'd be prepared to act on my behalf if needed. But, I'd much rather not go there - it'll be a horrible, long-drawn-out process for us all - so I'm hoping we can arrive at an acceptable solution for us both so we can move forward, get this job done, and not have any nastiness hanging over us."

SoJ, if they try and increase the quote ("allow 10% for additions"), then they'd need to justify it as an 'addition'. Them causing damage to your house is NOT 'addition'.

GET LP GUIDANCE NOW. You ideally do not want to be in the position of saying, "Hmm, I don't know - we'd need to ask our LP...", but more, "Sorry, that isn't reasonable or acceptable because our LP made it clear...", and you'll know what the next step to take is.

Call them up, explain the situation with ONLY the pertinent facts (don't waste time on trauma), and explain what the builder has said so far. Add that they want to talk it over with you, and you wish to be prepared with the legal facts. 'So what we need to know is': a), are they liable? 100%? As near as? How 'protected' are we? b) what do we need to say or do to them? c) and then some pre-empts; "If they say this, what do we say to them?" "If they claim this, how do we counter?"

As far as the legal team are concerned it's just another job and all about money. 

Bendy_House

Indeed. What else is it about?

Doozergirl

Bendy_House said:

Section62 said:

SoJacob said:

Our builder left early so couldn’t talk to him in person. We requested to see him tomorrow. He told us he got something to discuss with us. We have a feeling that he wanted to do increase the quote 😳(I hope not). When we first discussed this project we told him that we do not have the fund at the time but if we are able to get loan then we can go ahead. We have about the funding.. I really hope he don’t put us in a financial crisis ☹️.. so worried 

If you think you are likely to get into a conversation where the builder is asking for more money than you can afford then you need to have a pre-prepared list of 'must-haves', things that you absolutely need the builder to finish asap, with a separate list of the things you could live in the property without.

For example, it is an absolute 'must' that the builder gets the shell of the house weathertight again. That needs to be top of the list, and the thing the builder is absolutely focussed on.

Then look at what things you need to live in the property.  For example, having enough rooms for family members to sleep in, taking into account any options for children to share a room if necessary.

Take a hard look at everything else - for example whether you need ensuites to be fitted out and finished off.

In your discussions with the builder you can then aim to get them to agree to complete the job for the original price, but have the ability to agree to knock items off the list in return for the builder either sticking to the price, or offering a price reduction.  It isn't ideal to have rooms unfinished, but better than the relationship with the builder breaking down completely and leaving you with a roofless house in the middle of winter.

On what basis could the builder legitimately increase his quote?

It might be an estimate. 

There may be more works needed.  There often are and this house has already thrown up a surprise.  

They may have missed a zero off something. 

This is a bit of a tightrope, Bendy.  There is a relationship to be managed because the priority is a watertight house, not an argument.