Loft conversion- damage to the property due to heavy rain

Section62

SoJacob said:

Putting in new gable walls and a whole new roof?  So effectively a 'vertical extension' rather than what most people would think of as a loft conversion?

YES.. 

Do you have a 'before' picture of the outside you can share?

PLEASE CHECK YOUR PM. 

Thank you 

Thanks for the pictures. They show it is also a hip-to-gable conversion of what was a relatively complex roof design. In the circumstances I'm surprised no foundation check was needed, unless the BCO had dealt with an identical property in the street and was confident the foundations were the same.

Given the scale of the work I'm gobsmacked the builder is doing it (this time of year) just by sheeting over, rather than using a scaffolding-supported rigid temporary roof.

In fact it appears from the dropbox pictures that no scaffolding is being used at all at the rear and that access is via a ladder onto the flat roof.  Is there scaffolding at the side(s) or the front?  If not, has the BCO been up into the roof area to inspect, as generally they would (/should) refuse to inspect unless there is a safe means of access/egress.

Who is taking on the role of project manager for this work?  I.e. who ultimately is responsible for deciding whether or not to use scaffolding?

SoJacob

Thank you. There scaffolding but not at the back. Scaffolding in the front and side and they access to the roof by ladder which placed on the rear flat roof.   I will get pictures and send over to you. I am confident that our builder follows what was advised by the BCO. I am not sure if the BCO went up the roof, he didn’t while I was there with him. 

I am not sure about the project management side. Our builder was / is dealing with all other parties such as BCO, structural engineer etc. 

Also when I am thinking about what was mentioned in the estimate about the 10%- we are paying for a new boiler as the current boiler won’t be effective for the upstairs, the boiler is old but has been serviced. Changing the boiler and new ceiling together cost us more than 10%. I have emailed the building control to let us know about the advice to the builder about removing all ceilings wether it’s due to the damage or it has to come off regardless the damage due to the chip board and possible fire hazard. 

DanDare999

DanDare999 said:

SoJacob said:

Hello all,
I can't thank you enough for your advice.


Photos attached-

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2swycizlgivjzux/Document.docx?dl=0

The good news from today is- 
the building inspector came and advised that we do not have to do the digging for the foundation check. It seems as an error from the person who posted the letter. (Big relief.. phew...)

The bad news- 
I was there when the building inspector came but I missed may be 5 mins. According to my builder the inspector advised him to remove all ceiling as they are chip board due to fire hazard. Our builder told us that he won't be definitely paying for the damage as the ceiling had to come off anyway as advised by the inspector. (I will be confirming this with the council). Please refer to the picture where you can see the chip board. We requested about us paying may be half as the property would not have such damage if the roof was covered properly. Please refer to the picture I took from the garden, you can see one hole but actually it has so many holes, unfortunately the photo was not taken close to the sheets. 

our roof is now covered the roof with EPDM. 

 
I hope you'd be somewhat prepared for this with buckets and stuff. 

- the house had buckets and used our underlays on the floor. But it was not that helping. The damage was already done. 

So they should. Oh, I hope you have this in writing, or otherwise recordable? Do you? 

- no there is nothing in writing. He told us verbally. 

"the builder had plastic sheet covered on the roof but it has a lot of holes" -  please tell me you have photographs of this poor covering?
Plese see some pictures- 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2swycizlgivjzux/Document.docx?dl=0

"builder told us he do have liability insurance" - does or does not? If he does, he needs to claim (and I hope they don't send out an assessor to check the quality of his roof covering.)
- we had a chat with him but he adamant that this is some we will have to pay and he seems not considering that the damage was due to the leak and poor temporary roofing. He is now saying it is now pointless referring to the damage due to the rain as the ceilings now have to come off anyway as they are chip boarded and advised by the council. 

Again, do you have LP? 

Legal protection? if so, yes we do but it won't cover for poor workmanship. 

According to the home insurance policy it looks like we won't be able to get any help
-If your home will be unoccupied or unfurnished for more than 60 days in a row (losses are more likely to

happen in unoccupied or unfurnished properties). - we still have not moved in 

7. If you are having any building work done.

- You must tell us before the start of any building work, conversions, renovations, demolitions and

extensions at your property.  - *We have not told the insurance company* 

- You must tell us about the work at least 30 days before it starts.

- (You do not need to tell us if the work is for redecoration only, is routine maintenance or is to replace or

refit existing kitchen or bathroom fittings and does not involve making any structural changes to walls,

ceilings or floors.)

- You must also tell us if the building work alters the number of bedrooms or bathrooms.

In conclusion- 
-I will speak to the BC to ensure what was actually advised in regard to having new ceilings as I have not heard the advice which may have done before I turned up. do they normally advise to remove an exciting ceiling due to fire hazard? 
-At present we the builder won't take any responsibilities and we still remain to have a professional relationship, but it is so hard now as he is not even apologising for the damages caused which could be prevented
-I have planned to go to the citizen advice bureau 

If the builder has insurance then they probably advise them not to apologise if a claim maybe forthcoming.

Ok so you didn't inform your insurance company. That's not to say you can't use the legal protection just they won't pay a claim.

What is it you expect the CAB to do? You maybe best speaking to a solicitor who can advise on the strength of any claim you may have.

Is the builder a sold trader or a limited company?
Have you checked him out on companies house if limited co?
How long has he been trading and how many companies has he closed? 

Should the worst happen what about those questions?

DanDare999

I did mean consult with a solicitor to get a view on the strength of your case. Bit if you're happy your claim is less than £10k crack on. 

Looks like he is a sole trader so you'd be suing him personally. 

SoJacob

@DanDare999 the damage to the property could be fixed for less than 10k. 

diystarter7

Hi OP
I've just read the thread and skimmed a bit of it and therefore may have missed bits

Important factors when having works like this done and to this extent. I appreciate hindsight is a great thing and I am clearly not blaming you as you are here to seek guidance/etc

A build of this nature:

Its better to have this done in the summer but the bottom line is and if done properly can be done in the middle of winter/etc.

If you have buildings insurance, its an obligation you have to advise the
A project of this size, all check the builder has insurance cover should he damage your property or even raze it to the ground as it does happen.

If a local authority surveyor is not already involved, pick their brains and get the work checked out you may have to pay for this.

Always try to get the property watertight before doing the rest of the property up. (every property we have bought to live in, we've changed the roof first.

It's your choice and you will decide what is best for you.

Either way, good luck

SoJacob

@diystarter7

Thank you for your advice.

If a local authority surveyor is not already involved, pick their brains and get the work checked out you may have to pay for this.

Is it through the council? 

SoJacob

Hi all, 
could you please look into the pictures? 

Section62

SoJacob said:

Please can someone confirm if this is a chip board? Our builder drilled through this ceiling to install spotlights and to do rewiring. This includes installing a heavy ceiling fan. The fan remains on the ceiling where it has a loft board on the top.  

...

Please advise if there is anything I can do in the meantime? 

It looks like chipboard, but there's a possibility it is a form of fibreboard sometimes used in ceilings because it has better thermal insulation properties (e.g. strawboard).

The fundamental problem here is the blue faux-tarpaulin sheets the builder has used are not waterproof.  I'd call them 'weather resistant'.  Even when brand new they can leak, and when strained from blowing around in the wind the weave opens up so they are more like a sieve. You can see this in one of your latest pictures.

If the builder is close to being able to start making the roof weathertight then your best bet is to encourage him to do that ASAP. I think you'll still have problems in other locations, for example where the new construction meets the existing flat roof.

If it will take longer to get the roof covering in place then you seriously need to consider getting the whole building covered over with scaffolding and a temporary roof.  That won't be cheap, but it will reduce the amount of further damage (and project delay) being done to your property.

The third option is to get the builder to replace the rubbish blue sheets with some good quality waterproof tarpaulin, but that will add to your costs without vastly improving things.

Section62

SoJacob said:

Thank you for your advice.

If a local authority surveyor is not already involved, pick their brains and get the work checked out you may have to pay for this.

Is it through the council?

Unfortunately you have to treat some of the advice on forums like this with a great deal of caution.

The "local authority surveyor" referred to would be the building control officer (BCO), which has already been discussed earlier in the thread.