Deleted

MattMattMattUK

Chrysalis said:

pochase said:

deano2099 said:

Ofgem themselves have proposed that a customer's right to have their credit balance refunded on request should be made absolute, so this isn't as ridiculous a concept as some are claiming: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2021/03/cmp2_consultation_final.pdf

This is a consultation, not a Ofgem regulation.

And it talks about surplus credit being returned, which is not the credit a the begin of winter.

Credit is credit, time of year isnt relevant, the energy companies really should just be collecting bills owed if thats the customer's preference, not forcefully managing peoples finances for them.

They generally are not though, they are managing their own business and doing so in compliance with Ofgem regulations about not letting customers get into debt. 

Anyone who wants absolute control can just switch to variable monthly Direct Debit, but what a lot of these people seem to want to do is significantly underestimate their usage on budget Direct Debit and then have the energy supplier blindly agree because they say that they plan to cut future usage. 

ariarnia

Deleted_User said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Chrysalis said:

pochase said:

deano2099 said:

Ofgem themselves have proposed that a customer's right to have their credit balance refunded on request should be made absolute, so this isn't as ridiculous a concept as some are claiming: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2021/03/cmp2_consultation_final.pdf

This is a consultation, not a Ofgem regulation.

And it talks about surplus credit being returned, which is not the credit a the begin of winter.

Credit is credit, time of year isnt relevant, the energy companies really should just be collecting bills owed if thats the customer's preference, not forcefully managing peoples finances for them.

They generally are not though, they are managing their own business and doing so in compliance with Ofgem regulations about not letting customers get into debt. 

Anyone who wants absolute control can just switch to variable monthly Direct Debit, but what a lot of these people seem to want to do is significantly underestimate their usage on budget Direct Debit and then have the energy supplier blindly agree because they say that they plan to cut future usage. 

I am going to pretty much agree with all that you've said. It's true. (apart from the bit about switching to variable monthly Direct Debit as I and others have been told we can't do that - but that's another issue)..

if your supplier wont let you switch to variable dd then switch supplier. it takes a phonecall.

i agree with essex the threads on here arent very representative but you have talked about several threads where people have not been able to have the payment method or dd level they want and lots of them have ended with the op successfully switching to someone that will let them pay by variable or on recept of bill. 

Chrysalis

MattMattMattUK said:

Chrysalis said:

pochase said:

deano2099 said:

Ofgem themselves have proposed that a customer's right to have their credit balance refunded on request should be made absolute, so this isn't as ridiculous a concept as some are claiming: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2021/03/cmp2_consultation_final.pdf

This is a consultation, not a Ofgem regulation.

And it talks about surplus credit being returned, which is not the credit a the begin of winter.

Credit is credit, time of year isnt relevant, the energy companies really should just be collecting bills owed if thats the customer's preference, not forcefully managing peoples finances for them.

They generally are not though, they are managing their own business and doing so in compliance with Ofgem regulations about not letting customers get into debt. 

Anyone who wants absolute control can just switch to variable monthly Direct Debit, but what a lot of these people seem to want to do is significantly underestimate their usage on budget Direct Debit and then have the energy supplier blindly agree because they say that they plan to cut future usage. 

Thats fine if the company lets them do that, seems some suppliers dont allow it based on posts on here, or are not letting customers aware thats an option.

Ofgem do seem misguided the more I learn about them no other industry has such hand holding and just because someone doesnt over pay it doesnt mean they will end up in debt either.

So is overcharging a customer on out of date previous higher usage required to keep them out of debt?  Rereading the OP's post it doesnt say they want their DD lowered because they plan to reduce usage but rather because they already have.  The issue is that fixed DD doesnt change quickly when usage patterns change.  How much truth is in the below statement, open for debate but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.  I do know from my own experience though that Octopus were estimating my annual usage for 2022 based on one high bill from 2021 instead of my actual existing 2022 usage.

Energy companies are setting monthly payments according to last year's consumption. Lots of people are reporting that energy companies refuse to reduce monthly payments - even when people explain that they're using less now.

ariarnia

Chrysalis said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Chrysalis said:

pochase said:

deano2099 said:

Ofgem themselves have proposed that a customer's right to have their credit balance refunded on request should be made absolute, so this isn't as ridiculous a concept as some are claiming: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2021/03/cmp2_consultation_final.pdf

This is a consultation, not a Ofgem regulation.

And it talks about surplus credit being returned, which is not the credit a the begin of winter.

Credit is credit, time of year isnt relevant, the energy companies really should just be collecting bills owed if thats the customer's preference, not forcefully managing peoples finances for them.

They generally are not though, they are managing their own business and doing so in compliance with Ofgem regulations about not letting customers get into debt. 

Anyone who wants absolute control can just switch to variable monthly Direct Debit, but what a lot of these people seem to want to do is significantly underestimate their usage on budget Direct Debit and then have the energy supplier blindly agree because they say that they plan to cut future usage. 

Thats fine if the company lets them do that, seems some suppliers dont allow it based on posts on here, or are not letting customers aware thats an option.

not all suppliers offer variable dd (ofgem require them to accept cash or card after a bill but it costs more to administer so the tarrif is also allowed to be higher). but if thats how someone wants to pay then they can move to a supplier that does offer it. at the moment theres no difference in capped rates so if someone is sure they want to pay by variable then its a good reason to switch. 

C225

Due to being in an accident i currently do not have my electric car and have been given a petrol courtesy car for a number of months, I contacted e.on next to reduce my monthly bill temporarily as i wont be using anywhere near as much with no car charging and they offered to put me onto a variable DD which i agreed.  Given i have over £400 in credit right now i'll probably not be paying any bills for quite a few months which will help with petrol costs for now anyway.

[Deleted User]

Miser1964 said:

The OPs information that economising is pointless has rocked me back on my heals. I'm going to my MP about this!

No, no, no - going to your MP won't help - you need to superglue yourself to the roof of a tube train - that should do the trick

[Deleted User]

Miser1964 said:

The OPs information that economising is pointless has rocked me back on my heals. I'm going to my MP about this!

Let us try and put things back into some form of perspective. 

FACT: we all pay for the actual energy that we use (in kWh) based on the tariff rate that we are on. 

FACT: DD payments per se having nothing to do with actual energy charges. DD payments go into a pot (My Account) from which charges for the actual energy used are deducted.

FACT: Consumers who reduce their energy usage MAY lower bills; however, this depends on the price of energy.

FACT: An Ofgem typical consumer who purchased a basket of energy for £100 in September 2021 would pay £250 for the same basket of energy today - hence the use of the word MAY above.

Yes, DD payments should be set at an amount that covers present and future energy costs. Economising is not pointless. Lower usage means lower energy costs.

GunJack

...and the flip-side of this is...

anyone else had issues with trying to INCREASE their DD payment??

I'm with Shell, know pretty darned accurately how much g&e we use in a year, and am keeping an eye on the possible/probable price hikes come April 2023. Shell are one of the companies who are reducing your DD by the govt energy help scheme and crediting your account - great, no issues with that, I personally think it should have been done like that by all companies.

However, going into winter I'm around £500 in credit with one month's bill of £220 to come off that. In order to have the correct amount credited to my energy account that I have set, I tried to up my DD but the Shell system wouldn't let me increase it as much as I wanted to!! Now, I should state that I always run my utilities in credit, to allow for unforseen increased consumption e.g a heavy cold snap, rising unit rates, etc. I had to resort to using live chat to get it upped to where I wanted it and even then the CS rep was sceptical until I gave them detailed calculations of usage & likely cost between now, April and then further into 2023.

So even those of us who are pretty darned organised can fall foul of the algorithms.....the crux of the matter is keep records, project as accurately as possible, read meters regularly, and understand your usage, it makes dealing with energy companies far easier.

EssexHebridean

ariarnia said:

Deleted_User said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Chrysalis said:

pochase said:

deano2099 said:

Ofgem themselves have proposed that a customer's right to have their credit balance refunded on request should be made absolute, so this isn't as ridiculous a concept as some are claiming: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2021/03/cmp2_consultation_final.pdf

This is a consultation, not a Ofgem regulation.

And it talks about surplus credit being returned, which is not the credit a the begin of winter.

Credit is credit, time of year isnt relevant, the energy companies really should just be collecting bills owed if thats the customer's preference, not forcefully managing peoples finances for them.

They generally are not though, they are managing their own business and doing so in compliance with Ofgem regulations about not letting customers get into debt. 

Anyone who wants absolute control can just switch to variable monthly Direct Debit, but what a lot of these people seem to want to do is significantly underestimate their usage on budget Direct Debit and then have the energy supplier blindly agree because they say that they plan to cut future usage. 

I am going to pretty much agree with all that you've said. It's true. (apart from the bit about switching to variable monthly Direct Debit as I and others have been told we can't do that - but that's another issue)..

if your supplier wont let you switch to variable dd then switch supplier. it takes a phonecall.

i agree with essex the threads on here arent very representative but you have talked about several threads where people have not been able to have the payment method or dd level they want and lots of them have ended with the op successfully switching to someone that will let them pay by variable or on recept of bill. 

EDF (Who I believe the OP is with) DO let you switch to a variable DD - they call it "Whole amount monthly" - when I was with them for gas it took one phone call and they changed me straight over - albeit in my case for other reasons I subsequently left them very soon after so never really benefited from it. Others have also given step by step instructions around how you can make the change online.

Chrysalis said:

So is overcharging a customer on out of date previous higher usage required to keep them out of debt?  Rereading the OP's post it doesnt say they want their DD lowered because they plan to reduce usage but rather because they already have.  The issue is that fixed DD doesnt change quickly when usage patterns change.  How much truth is in the below statement, open for debate but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.  I do know from my own experience though that Octopus were estimating my annual usage for 2022 based on one high bill from 2021 instead of my actual existing 2022 usage.

Energy companies are setting monthly payments according to last year's consumption. Lots of people are reporting that energy companies refuse to reduce monthly payments - even when people explain that they're using less now.

If it IS out of date - ie if you have reduced use and that is visible for a directly comparable period (by which I mean not calling your energy company up and claiming lower use from June > September as evidence that your DD should be reduced when we are coming into the winter period and the chances are the percentage reduction achievable will be far lower for most) then you can state your right to a fair DD if needed - it seems that many suppliers will listen to that. if they don't then you can make a formal complaint, request a deadlock letter and go to the Ombudsman - My suspicion is that even the hard-headed ones are very likely to rethink what is "reasonable" at that stage. Of course some suppliers contractually require a certain level of credit to be retained (I believe 2 x monthly DD is reasonably common).  Explaining that "I'm using less now" is completely irrelevant though - I could tell you that I am going to win the lottery this weekend on the basis that I've bought a ticket, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen! For those who remain unhappy with the position and have the financial privilege to enable it however the switch to variable DD is generally an option - (or the switch to a supplier who allows variable DD if needed) - even at this time of year, when we wouldn't really recommend the switch as being suitable in a lot of cases. 

GunJack said:

...and the flip-side of this is...

anyone else had issues with trying to INCREASE their DD payment??

<snip>

Yep! Ironically enough also with EDF - a few months back I tried to increase my gas DD from £10 a month to £12 - but they kept amending it back to £9. £9 would have historically covered my costs and some, but with the price increased coming I wanted to get ahead of the curve a little. In the end I had to take to the live chat to get it altered. 

Jaybee_16

I am currently £300 in credit with Bulb. If I want to reduce my monthly payments I have only one option which is to reduce my DD to a maximum of £3 per month.

After being pestered by emails a few months ago informing me that my credit balance was too high I reduced monthly payments by £20 per month but now Bulb want me to reduce further with £3 the only option but being mindful of what may be coming from April 2023 I want a credit balance to remain.