Deleted

[Deleted User]

And it talks about surplus credit being returned, which is not the credit a the begin of winter.

And it does talk about all credit, on request, your second point is wrong. 

As night follows day, the consequence of a partial or total refund of a credit balance is an increased direct debit.

deano2099

[Deleted User] said:

And it talks about surplus credit being returned, which is not the credit a the begin of winter.

And it does talk about all credit, on request, your second point is wrong. 

As night follows day, the consequence of a partial or total refund of a credit balance is an increased direct debit.

Yes, and that would be fine, as it provides the customer with access to *their* money when they need it. It should be an absolute right for the customer to get their credit back whenever they want. That might then mean a higher DD, that's a different issue altogether. But crucially it means the customer gets their money when they want it. At the very far end, a customer could if they wanted pay their DD, have the energy they've used taken off, and then reclaim the remainder, get a higher DD figure and do that every month.

For what it's worth I spent about 6 months trying to get Pure Planet to give me back the credit built up on my account, and they just continually ignored me. I'd moved out of the property at that point but they didn't seem interested in setting a sensible figure. In the end I had about £800 credit when they went bankrupt and I got moved to Shell. Thanks for paying that for me!

pseudodox

ariarnia - Yes - I instigated switching from SSE to EDF, thanks to the information on this forum, which told me who was accepting new customers who sought variable payments and that the approach should be by phone.  I had already found the online switching services were not operating which is why I turned to MSE.  SSE had just set me on a Fixed DD  (no other option, not prepared to negotiate with me) that would have paid for twice the consumption I outline above, which I clearly know I cannot afford.  This was despite my 15 years history with them, with pretty consistent usage.  I have a low fixed income - I could not afford to give SSE 29% of that income.  The only recourse would have been to withdraw sums from my "old age care" pot of savings to deposit them with SSE, albeit in the certain knowledge they would have to return them eventually.  But before that eventually happened I may need to dip into the pot for a roof repair, a replacement domestic appliance etc.

I am now going to be paying monthly for my actual usage.  In summer  will set aside money in MY pot for the higher winter bills and because I will limit my consumption to what I know I can afford I will know how much to set aside for future expenditure.  Now that EDF have asked for SSE to pass me over to them SSE suddenly out of the blue have halved that original Fixed DD.  Perhaps someone woke up and looked at my history.  Anyway the amount that would have been their new Fixed DD will now be allocated to paying monthly actual usage bills with EDF.  By the end of the year (notwithstanding all change again in April) I will have paid for what I have used, I will have used what I can afford to pay for and I will have control of my own financial position.

SSE don't care they have lost a customer of longstanding.  EDF only see me as an addition to their customer base.  There is no loyalty on either side and in any future circumstances I will switch again.

I got a satisfactory solution for me and as I have said several times one size does not fit all.  You have to look at all the options available and pick the one for you.  There is always an answer.

EssexHebridean

Dolor said:

And it talks about surplus credit being returned, which is not the credit a the begin of winter.

And it does talk about all credit, on request, your second point is wrong. 

As night follows day, the consequence of a partial or total refund of a credit balance is an increased direct debit.

It does depend, in fairness. A few years ago we had new windows and doors fitted throughout across two points in the early winter months. As a result of this we made what can frankly only be described as a mahoosive saving on our heating bill over winter. And as a result of THAT, in the spring, we had a chunk of credit refunded and our DD reduced dramatically also. This only occurred because we'd done the sums, knew how much we had used and expected to use going forwards and were able to present our facts clearly to our supplier  - I wouldn't have dreamed of calling them up at the beginning of the winter and saying "errr - we're planning on getting some new windows so we expect to use *unknown amount* less electricity" and had I done so I would have been expecting to be politely told to Foxtrot Oscar, quite honestly! 

At this time of year, and with the uncertain picture around energy bills generally going forward through next year it's likely that most people getting credit refunded are going to see an uplift in DD at some stage before too long though - not least because huge numbers of those thinking they are in "too  much" credit haven't taken into account that even if they reduce the energy they use to heat their homes by 50% this winter (a pretty tall order for most) they are STILL going to be paying the same amount as they paid last winter, for less warmth.

This is one reason why many of us have been suggesting that where credit is reclaimed, it should ideally be set aside ready for payment back to the energy accounts if needed later in the winter. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Couldn't this thread be covered in two sentences?

If you aren't paying enough they'll quickly up your DD.
If you are paying more than you need they probably won't be so quick about reducing it. 

EssexHebridean

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Couldn't this thread be covered in two sentences?

If you aren't paying enough they'll quickly up your DD.
If you are paying more than you need they probably won't be so quick about reducing it. 

The thread isn't actually really anything to do with the subject of DDs and how they work - if you take a look at the OP's posting history it will add backstory, but ultimately it would very much seem that it was started as yet another platform for a particular "extreme" viewpoint. I suspect it will get closed before too long anyway! 

[Deleted User]

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Couldn't this thread be covered in two sentences?

If you aren't paying enough they'll quickly up your DD.
If you are paying more than you need they probably won't be so quick about reducing it. 

I'd go for an even briefer summary.....

The question was:

What is the point in cutting energy usage if DD's are set according to last year's consumption?

The answer is:

It will save you money.

Chrysalis

I have often said this is a big flaw of the fixed rate DD system, it doesnt react much to usage changes.

Assuming you cant/wont switch to variable DD, then still use less, let the credit build up and use that as evidence you over paying, this is far easier to do with a smart meter, as then they cant use the "estimated usage" on you.

Back in spring, they tried to quadruple my DD, told the lady to look at my smart meter readings, few moments later DD was fixed.

As has been pointed out though DD's arent the bill, they just a payment method, so even if there is a lag for their billing systems to catch up, you will ultimately save money by cutting consumption.  Just because the saving is not immediate it doesnt mean its not worth doing.

Chrysalis

pochase said:

deano2099 said:

Ofgem themselves have proposed that a customer's right to have their credit balance refunded on request should be made absolute, so this isn't as ridiculous a concept as some are claiming: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2021/03/cmp2_consultation_final.pdf

This is a consultation, not a Ofgem regulation.

And it talks about surplus credit being returned, which is not the credit a the begin of winter.

Credit is credit, time of year isnt relevant, the energy companies really should just be collecting bills owed if thats the customer's preference, not forcefully managing peoples finances for them.

Miser1964

The OPs information that economising is pointless has rocked me back on my heals. I'm going to my MP about this!