Honeywell CH Programmer CM927 - Can it be repaired?

BUFF

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

there are direct replacements for CM927s (hopefully without the screen issues) if you wanted to do a straight swap

Like what?

Honeywell say the T4 or T4R.

Also, https://theintergasshop.co.uk/home/99-cms927-7-day-wireless-programmable-room-thermostat-cms927b1049.html etc. (if you search you may find this cheaper elsewhere)

Although my sister told me not to bother and just use the TRV's on the radiators and turn the heating off and on with those and save myself £80 like she does!    These programmers only last about 6-7 yrs by the looks of it, another throw away item in today's world where eco people and the government batter you to go green and not throw things away with no one supplying the repair shops to provide the solution to repair these thousands of appliances people end up dumping because they can't be repaired.   

Having previously run a system with TRVs only + programmer myself I can tell you confidently from personal experience that the room 'stat/programmer used properly will save you a significant amount of gas consumption/money.
My wireless room 'stat is a 14 years old Siemens, the programmer is a similarly aged Worcester (really a badged Drayton) & both are still going strong. 

Bendy_House

I second wot BUFF says.

If you don't take the opportunity to go Prog Stat, with the current economic climate, then that is almost certainly a mistake.

Using TRVs to control the boiler will have it running - cycling - when it shouldn't be. It'll keep on trying to provide hot water, since there's nothing to tell it to go off, except when it cannot shift the water it's producing - then it'll cycle. Needless waste, and wear.

Having App control is genuinely superb. We have our sitting room heating set at 18oC in the evenings. Depending on many other factors, such as the type of cooking we've been doing, whether we've just come in from outside, to how active we are, that same 18oC can feel either 'fine', 'quite chilly', or 'warm'. When it's 'warm' or 'fine', and we've snuggled with a blanket to watch t'telly, a couple of presses of the App knocks a degree off, which essentially means the heating goes completely off for the rest of the evening. If that doesn't all add up to a significant saving, what does?

Ditto if t'inlaws are coming around - stab-stab (the phone, not the visi.., youknowwhatImean) - and a degree or more added.

We do have an economic crisis, and a war with Putin. To say it's a fight for democracy is barely overstating it.

Leodogger

Bendy_House said:

I second wot BUFF says.

If you don't take the opportunity to go Prog Stat, with the current economic climate, then that is almost certainly a mistake.

Using TRVs to control the boiler will have it running - cycling - when it shouldn't be. It'll keep on trying to provide hot water, since there's nothing to tell it to go off, except when it cannot shift the water it's producing - then it'll cycle. Needless waste, and wear.

Having App control is genuinely superb. We have our sitting room heating set at 18oC in the evenings. Depending on many other factors, such as the type of cooking we've been doing, whether we've just come in from outside, to how active we are, that same 18oC can feel either 'fine', 'quite chilly', or 'warm'. When it's 'warm' or 'fine', and we've snuggled with a blanket to watch t'telly, a couple of presses of the App knocks a degree off, which essentially means the heating goes completely off for the rest of the evening. If that doesn't all add up to a significant saving, what does?

Ditto if t'inlaws are coming around - stab-stab (the phone, not the visi.., youknowwhatImean) - and a degree or more added.

We do have an economic crisis, and a war with Putin. To say it's a fight for democracy is barely overstating it.

I don't really understand half of what you are saying except that I don't see how a programmer saves you money if you are going away which we are for a long period of time and need to set the heating on minimal for the winter.   If we set the TRV's to say 1, then that will surely be enough to stop it freezing.    If we had a programmer working we would just set it on manual and to 9c and would have thought that that would do the same thing.   I don't really understand what programmers do except bring on the heating at specific times and keep it to the temperature selected.   We have the Central Heating switched off at the moment so how is it using money ?

Leodogger

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

there are direct replacements for CM927s (hopefully without the screen issues) if you wanted to do a straight swap

Like what?

Honeywell say the T4 or T4R.

Also, https://theintergasshop.co.uk/home/99-cms927-7-day-wireless-programmable-room-thermostat-cms927b1049.html etc. (if you search you may find this cheaper elsewhere)

Although my sister told me not to bother and just use the TRV's on the radiators and turn the heating off and on with those and save myself £80 like she does!    These programmers only last about 6-7 yrs by the looks of it, another throw away item in today's world where eco people and the government batter you to go green and not throw things away with no one supplying the repair shops to provide the solution to repair these thousands of appliances people end up dumping because they can't be repaired.   

Having previously run a system with TRVs only + programmer myself I can tell you confidently from personal experience that the room 'stat/programmer used properly will save you a significant amount of gas consumption/money.
My wireless room 'stat is a 14 years old Siemens, the programmer is a similarly aged Worcester (really a badged Drayton) & both are still going strong. 

Well as I said, my programmer is only about 6 or 7 yrs old which I don't think is old for something that will cost £100 to replace!   My washer only cost just over £200 and I consider that a far more useful appliance that will last at least as long if not longer.  My last washer lasted 13 yrs !!

Bendy_House

Leodogger said:

I don't really understand half of what you are saying except that I don't see how a programmer saves you money if you are going away which we are for a long period of time and need to set the heating on minimal for the winter.   If we set the TRV's to say 1, then that will surely be enough to stop it freezing.    If we had a programmer working we would just set it on manual and to 9c and would have thought that that would do the same thing.   I don't really understand what programmers do except bring on the heating at specific times and keep it to the temperature selected.   We have the Central Heating switched off at the moment so how is it using money ?

That's a fair question.

A prog stats can save energy in a number of ways:

As you say, it sets the times and temps in advance. That way it'll still do the job even if you forget to. Say if you leave home and forget to turn down the room stat or TRV, the ProgStat will have already been programmed to turn the temp down at the leaving time of 7.30am (or whatever), so does the job for you. In practice, you would set it to turn the temp down even before you leave home in the morning, as it takes a while for the temp in the house to fall, so if exit time is 7.30, you would likely set the PS to turn down the temp at 7am. If you rely on mere humans to do this, they will forget. That's going to be a lot of accumulated half-hours of waste.

Smarter models even work out if there's anyone at home, and turn the heat down accordingly.

With interweb connectivity - ie a Smart PS - you have full override control via your phone App. This is easier to use than the PS itself. Say you decide to stay out for a meal after work, you tell the house to remain 'cool' until you know you are heading home, and then you turn it back up before you arrive. That's hours of heating. You go out for a day with the family - when will you be back? When will the heating come on? Will you guess a time and set it for this? Or wait until you get home and everyone is shivering? With the App, the house temp is shown as a large number - you just scroll it up or down to change it. It is EASIER than doing it with the PS itself.

There are models which will work out when to start heating the house in the morning, so it'll be warm when you want it, and not a half-hour after you turn up the temp. So, it's told to 'be at this temp at x time', and not just 'come on at this time'. As the days warm up, the PS will leave it later and later before it turns on the boiler to get to the required temp = savings.

A PS has a room stat as part of it - ie it detects the room temp, and controls the boiler this way. That means that when the temp is reached, the boiler is turned off. If, instead, you control the room temps using just TRVs, then the boiler has to be always running - a waste. Not only that, but it'll be cycling on and off a lot more, which means additional wear to the valves.

I think the main saving is simply from the way it doesn't forget to turn the heating off, and turns it back on when you know it's needed  - it's like a highly reliable human!

BUFF

Bendy_House said:

Leodogger said:

I don't really understand half of what you are saying except that I don't see how a programmer saves you money if you are going away which we are for a long period of time and need to set the heating on minimal for the winter.   If we set the TRV's to say 1, then that will surely be enough to stop it freezing.    If we had a programmer working we would just set it on manual and to 9c and would have thought that that would do the same thing.   I don't really understand what programmers do except bring on the heating at specific times and keep it to the temperature selected.   We have the Central Heating switched off at the moment so how is it using money ?

A PS has a room stat as part of it - ie it detects the room temp, and controls the boiler this way. That means that when the temp is reached, the boiler is turned off. If, instead, you control the room temps using just TRVs, then the boiler has to be always running - a waste. Not only that, but it'll be cycling on and off a lot more, which means additional wear to the valves.

I think the main saving is simply from the way it doesn't forget to turn the heating off, and turns it back on when you know it's needed  - it's like a highly reliable human!

This.
As I said, I have run a system controlled by a programmer+TRVs & one with programmer+room 'stat+TRVs. It is hard for me to give figures as other changes were made but I am in no doubt that the improved controls made a significant impact on reducing gas consumption. Instead of the boiler still running when the TRVs have closed due to rooms reaching temp. & continuing to pump heated water round it gets shut down until it gets called for again by room temp. falling below set level.

BUFF

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

there are direct replacements for CM927s (hopefully without the screen issues) if you wanted to do a straight swap

Like what?

Honeywell say the T4 or T4R.

Also, https://theintergasshop.co.uk/home/99-cms927-7-day-wireless-programmable-room-thermostat-cms927b1049.html etc. (if you search you may find this cheaper elsewhere)

Although my sister told me not to bother and just use the TRV's on the radiators and turn the heating off and on with those and save myself £80 like she does!    These programmers only last about 6-7 yrs by the looks of it, another throw away item in today's world where eco people and the government batter you to go green and not throw things away with no one supplying the repair shops to provide the solution to repair these thousands of appliances people end up dumping because they can't be repaired.   

Having previously run a system with TRVs only + programmer myself I can tell you confidently from personal experience that the room 'stat/programmer used properly will save you a significant amount of gas consumption/money.
My wireless room 'stat is a 14 years old Siemens, the programmer is a similarly aged Worcester (really a badged Drayton) & both are still going strong. 

Well as I said, my programmer is only about 6 or 7 yrs old which I don't think is old for something that will cost £100 to replace!   My washer only cost just over £200 and I consider that a far more useful appliance that will last at least as long if not longer.  My last washer lasted 13 yrs !!

I agree. However, looking at internet feedback it would appear that this particular series has an issue with the LCD panel. I am reasonably sure that Honeywell didn't design it to be that way but that was the outcome (supplier issue?).
Also, since your Honeywell was designed there have been improvements in heating system controls that mean that they will usually more than pay for themselves by reduced running costs (especially with gas at 10pkWh) over their life.

p.s. I know that B_H is a big fan of Hive but it is one of the poorer "smart" thermostats in terms of energy efficiency, it is a Class 1 thermostat which is the lowest ranking.

Leodogger

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

there are direct replacements for CM927s (hopefully without the screen issues) if you wanted to do a straight swap

Like what?

Honeywell say the T4 or T4R.

Also, https://theintergasshop.co.uk/home/99-cms927-7-day-wireless-programmable-room-thermostat-cms927b1049.html etc. (if you search you may find this cheaper elsewhere)

Although my sister told me not to bother and just use the TRV's on the radiators and turn the heating off and on with those and save myself £80 like she does!    These programmers only last about 6-7 yrs by the looks of it, another throw away item in today's world where eco people and the government batter you to go green and not throw things away with no one supplying the repair shops to provide the solution to repair these thousands of appliances people end up dumping because they can't be repaired.   

Having previously run a system with TRVs only + programmer myself I can tell you confidently from personal experience that the room 'stat/programmer used properly will save you a significant amount of gas consumption/money.
My wireless room 'stat is a 14 years old Siemens, the programmer is a similarly aged Worcester (really a badged Drayton) & both are still going strong. 

Well as I said, my programmer is only about 6 or 7 yrs old which I don't think is old for something that will cost £100 to replace!   My washer only cost just over £200 and I consider that a far more useful appliance that will last at least as long if not longer.  My last washer lasted 13 yrs !!

I agree. However, looking at internet feedback it would appear that this particular series has an issue with the LCD panel. I am reasonably sure that Honeywell didn't design it to be that way but that was the outcome (supplier issue?).
Also, since your Honeywell was designed there have been improvements in heating system controls that mean that they will usually more than pay for themselves by reduced running costs (especially with gas at 10pkWh) over their life.

p.s. I know that B_H is a big fan of Hive but it is one of the poorer "smart" thermostats in terms of energy efficiency, it is a Class 1 thermostat which is the lowest ranking.

So if I do decide I need another programmer, which one would I need to compliment my Worcester Greenstar CDi Compact boiler?

Bendy_House

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

there are direct replacements for CM927s (hopefully without the screen issues) if you wanted to do a straight swap

Like what?

Honeywell say the T4 or T4R.

Also, https://theintergasshop.co.uk/home/99-cms927-7-day-wireless-programmable-room-thermostat-cms927b1049.html etc. (if you search you may find this cheaper elsewhere)

Although my sister told me not to bother and just use the TRV's on the radiators and turn the heating off and on with those and save myself £80 like she does!    These programmers only last about 6-7 yrs by the looks of it, another throw away item in today's world where eco people and the government batter you to go green and not throw things away with no one supplying the repair shops to provide the solution to repair these thousands of appliances people end up dumping because they can't be repaired.   

Having previously run a system with TRVs only + programmer myself I can tell you confidently from personal experience that the room 'stat/programmer used properly will save you a significant amount of gas consumption/money.
My wireless room 'stat is a 14 years old Siemens, the programmer is a similarly aged Worcester (really a badged Drayton) & both are still going strong. 

Well as I said, my programmer is only about 6 or 7 yrs old which I don't think is old for something that will cost £100 to replace!   My washer only cost just over £200 and I consider that a far more useful appliance that will last at least as long if not longer.  My last washer lasted 13 yrs !!

I agree. However, looking at internet feedback it would appear that this particular series has an issue with the LCD panel. I am reasonably sure that Honeywell didn't design it to be that way but that was the outcome (supplier issue?).
Also, since your Honeywell was designed there have been improvements in heating system controls that mean that they will usually more than pay for themselves by reduced running costs (especially with gas at 10pkWh) over their life.

p.s. I know that B_H is a big fan of Hive but it is one of the poorer "smart" thermostats in terms of energy efficiency, it is a Class 1 thermostat which is the lowest ranking.

Absolutely. The Hive suits me and my 16- year old Glowworm just fine! All it does is turn the boiler on and off, just like a room stat, but it takes all the 'operator error' out of it.

Better systems will not only tell the boiler to go on and off, but also by how much. It'll control a boiler's output more like adjusting a gas hob - a range of 'burn'.

And then there's weather compensation, so it again adjusts the boiler according to the outside conditions.

But, your boiler has to have these features as well.

If your boiler is 'oldish' like mine, it's still probably worth future-proofing your controls in anticipation of a boiler replacement at some point - the additional amount for these 'super' controls is probably not much.

Leodogger

Bendy_House said:

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

Leodogger said:

BUFF said:

there are direct replacements for CM927s (hopefully without the screen issues) if you wanted to do a straight swap

Like what?

Honeywell say the T4 or T4R.

Also, https://theintergasshop.co.uk/home/99-cms927-7-day-wireless-programmable-room-thermostat-cms927b1049.html etc. (if you search you may find this cheaper elsewhere)

Although my sister told me not to bother and just use the TRV's on the radiators and turn the heating off and on with those and save myself £80 like she does!    These programmers only last about 6-7 yrs by the looks of it, another throw away item in today's world where eco people and the government batter you to go green and not throw things away with no one supplying the repair shops to provide the solution to repair these thousands of appliances people end up dumping because they can't be repaired.   

Having previously run a system with TRVs only + programmer myself I can tell you confidently from personal experience that the room 'stat/programmer used properly will save you a significant amount of gas consumption/money.
My wireless room 'stat is a 14 years old Siemens, the programmer is a similarly aged Worcester (really a badged Drayton) & both are still going strong. 

Well as I said, my programmer is only about 6 or 7 yrs old which I don't think is old for something that will cost £100 to replace!   My washer only cost just over £200 and I consider that a far more useful appliance that will last at least as long if not longer.  My last washer lasted 13 yrs !!

I agree. However, looking at internet feedback it would appear that this particular series has an issue with the LCD panel. I am reasonably sure that Honeywell didn't design it to be that way but that was the outcome (supplier issue?).
Also, since your Honeywell was designed there have been improvements in heating system controls that mean that they will usually more than pay for themselves by reduced running costs (especially with gas at 10pkWh) over their life.

p.s. I know that B_H is a big fan of Hive but it is one of the poorer "smart" thermostats in terms of energy efficiency, it is a Class 1 thermostat which is the lowest ranking.

Absolutely. The Hive suits me and my 16- year old Glowworm just fine! All it does is turn the boiler on and off, just like a room stat, but it takes all the 'operator error' out of it.

Better systems will not only tell the boiler to go on and off, but also by how much. It'll control a boiler's output more like adjusting a gas hob - a range of 'burn'.

And then there's weather compensation, so it again adjusts the boiler according to the outside conditions.

But, your boiler has to have these features as well.

If your boiler is 'oldish' like mine, it's still probably worth future-proofing your controls in anticipation of a boiler replacement at some point - the additional amount for these 'super' controls is probably not much.

Actually my boiler is only 18 months old and has a frost setting as do all the radiators, so I wouldn't have thought if I leave them switched to that, my boiler would be firing all the time, especially as our bungalow is quite well insulted and rarely gets down below about 12c with no heating on.   But as we are going to be away for a few months, I am still wondering if I need a programmer ?