Barclays Blue Rewards

wmb194

ForumUser7 said:

I was told a couple of weeks ago that for Blue Rewards, Faster Payments of the £800 will not count - even from external current account - and I have to set up standing order. Is this definitely correct? Seems to be a bit of unclarity on the topic.

No, this is categorically incorrect. An ad-hoc, in and out faster payment from an external account is fine.

EarthBoy

One-off internal transfers from your own Barclays account won't count, but standing orders from your Barclays account will do.

There are no restrictions on payments from external accounts. 

https://www.barclays.co.uk/current-accounts/blue-rewards-terms-conditions/

Nick_C

wmb194 said:

ForumUser7 said:

I was told a couple of weeks ago that for Blue Rewards, Faster Payments of the £800 will not count - even from external current account - and I have to set up standing order. Is this definitely correct? Seems to be a bit of unclarity on the topic.

No, this is categorically incorrect. An ad-hoc, in and out faster payment from an external account is fine.

Are you representing Barclays?  Because if you are not, you cannot say this is categorically incorrect.

Barclays staff were advising last month that the funding had to be a regular payment, and an ad hoc faster payment would not count.

There are reports that they are not currently enforcing that rule, but its easy enough to play safe and set up a standing order to fund the account.

Barclays IT does distinguish between ad hoc payments and regular payments, so this would be very easy for them to enforce.

The T&Cs are ambiguous.

Sensory

The terms are clear to me:

https://www.barclays.co.uk/current-accounts/blue-rewards-terms-conditions/

When working out how much you have paid into your nominated bank account, we won’t count:

• one-off internal transfers between Barclays accounts in your name, including any joint accounts or savings accounts. Regular payments set up as standing orders or Direct Debits from your personal Barclays accounts, a Barclays Business Account or your non-Barclays accounts will count towards your qualifying amount

• any interest that we pay you

• any refunds you receive from us

The second clause in the first exclusion simply clarifies that regular payments like standing orders are not considered one-off internal transfers.

Anything else that's not explicitly listed is therefore not excluded, and will count.

The chances of first-point-of-contact bank staff providing complete and accurate information when asked verbally in a real-time conversation (without an opportunity to verify references), is far less than 100%.

wmb194

Nick_C said:

wmb194 said:

ForumUser7 said:

I was told a couple of weeks ago that for Blue Rewards, Faster Payments of the £800 will not count - even from external current account - and I have to set up standing order. Is this definitely correct? Seems to be a bit of unclarity on the topic.

No, this is categorically incorrect. An ad-hoc, in and out faster payment from an external account is fine.

Are you representing Barclays?  Because if you are not, you cannot say this is categorically incorrect.

Barclays staff were advising last month that the funding had to be a regular payment, and an ad hoc faster payment would not count.

There are reports that they are not currently enforcing that rule, but its easy enough to play safe and set up a standing order to fund the account.

Barclays IT does distinguish between ad hoc payments and regular payments, so this would be very easy for them to enforce.

The T&Cs are ambiguous.

No, from long experience of doing this. 

Always, always take anything a bank employee, and particularly a frontline one, tells you with a massive pinch of salt. On the face of it a, "regular payment" as a deposit requirement is just silly as lots of people don't receive these, or at least not of the size required.

The terms state, "pay in at least £800 to your nominated current account each month. ...one-off internal transfers between Barclays accounts in your name, including any joint accounts or savings accounts [will not count] 

Regular payments set up as standing orders or Direct Debits from your personal Barclays accounts, a Barclays Business Account or your non-Barclays accounts will count towards your qualifying amount"

They're badly written but actually straightforward in that there is no exclusion for a one-off deposit from an external account.

https://www.barclays.co.uk/current-accounts/blue-rewards-terms-conditions/

Nick_C

ForumUser7 said:

I was told a couple of weeks ago that for Blue Rewards, Faster Payments of the £800 will not count - even from external current account - and I have to set up standing order. Is this definitely correct? Seems to be a bit of unclarity on the topic.

Sensory said:...

You believe that you have interpreted the terms correctly.  Barclays staff have a different view.  The terms are therefore ambiguous - they are open to interpretation.

wmb194 said: 
...
 

Always, always take anything a bank employee, and particularly a frontline one, tells you with a massive pinch of salt. On the face of it a, "regular payment" as a deposit requirement is just silly as lots of people don't receive these, or at least not of the size required.

A regular monthly deposit into a current account probably doesn't seem silly to the bank.  The bank wants / expects you to use a current account for managing your day to day finances.  Paying in your pension, salary, or other income and paying your bills by direct debit.  And £800 a month is a not an excessive requirement for an account that offers rewards.

wmb194 said: 
...
 

The terms state ... 

They're badly written but actually straightforward in that there is no exclusion for a one-off deposit from an external account.

https://www.barclays.co.uk/current-accounts/blue-rewards-terms-conditions/

They are badly written, and they are ambiguous.

The terms state 

"Please see below for more information on what will count towards your £800 payment"

"When working out how much you have paid into your nominated bank account, we won’t count:

• one-off internal transfers between Barclays accounts in your name, including any joint accounts or savings accounts. Regular payments set up as standing orders or Direct Debits from your personal Barclays accounts, a Barclays Business Account or your non-Barclays accounts will count towards your qualifying amount"

So in a section on what they won't count, they give an example of something that they will count.  They say a regular payment set up as a standing order will count.  

They do not say whether an ad hoc credit (faster payment) will count or not.

The fact that they say "regular payment" suggests they regard it as important.  The fact that they categorise incoming payments as either "regular payments" or "credits" suggests they they see them as two different things.

The fact that they sent emails to a lot of new customers in mid October to say we hadn't funded our accounts, when in fact we had, suggests that they are looking for regular payments and not ad hoc ones.

The fact that Barclays official representatives - their call centre staff - give this advice makes it pretty clear what they want.

Now Barclays really need to clear up this badly written wording in the T&Cs and remove the ambiguity.  But anyone who insists on continuing to fund their account by ad hoc faster payments instead of a standing order risks not getting the £5 credit to offset the Blue Rewards Fee, and risks getting into a dispute / complaint with Barclays.  This can easily be prevented by following the advice of their customer services staff and setting up a standing order.  You need to fund the account with £800 each month, so whether you do this by SO or Faster Payment is immaterial, but could save you some trouble further down the line.

ForumUser7 said:

I was told a couple of weeks ago that for Blue Rewards, Faster Payments of the £800 will not count - even from external current account - and I have to set up standing order. Is this definitely correct? Seems to be a bit of unclarity on the topic.

@forumuser7 If you want a definitive answer to this, you should really contact Barclays.

Sensory

Nick_C said:

You believe that you have interpreted the terms correctly.  Barclays staff have a different view.  The terms are therefore ambiguous - they are open to interpretation.

Barclays staff can be mistaken, just like any other human. Over the years on this forum, there have been countless examples of bank staff and customer service agents providing incorrect, inaccurate and/or incomplete information.

Nick_C said:

If you want a definitive answer to this, you should really contact Barclays

Case in point, I also contacted Barclays, and was advised that manual transfers from an external account do qualify. Which staff member is definitive?

Nick_C said:

So in a section on what they won't count, they give an example of something that they will count. They say a regular payment set up as a standing order will count.

The terms are written as a blacklist, i.e. what does not count. Transaction types are enumerated in a bulleted list. The first point excludes one-off internal transfers between Barclays accounts in your name. An additional note is provided within the same bullet point to clarify that standing orders are not excluded in the scope of this particular exclusion; it is not listed as a separate bullet point. Essentially: "Internal standing orders are not one-off internal transfers, so they're OK." Therefore, the list maintains its integrity as a list of exclusions, not to be interpreted as an exhaustive list of both exclusions and inclusions.

They are in fact being extremely generous. Had they simply listed "internal transfers between Barclays accounts in your name" as an exclusion (without the additional note), internal standing orders would also be excluded; however, the note is provided as clarification within the scope of the bulleted/itemised exclusion.

So based on the evidence available:

• A few reports of bank staff advising that manual transfers from external accounts do not qualify.
• Other reports of bank staff advising that manual transfers from external accounts do qualify.
• Several reports of automated emails being received advising to fund the account, despite the account having already been funded via manual transfer from an external account.
• No one has ever reported missing a reward payment due to funding via manual transfer from an external account.

My own experience:

• I've always funded via manual external transfers, including during the months of October 2022 and November 2022.
• I've never received any emails advising I still had to fund my account.
• I've always received my rewards.

My conclusion:

• The email sent by Barclays was a system error, to those who received it despite having already funded their accounts.
• Barclays staff (and customer service agents in general), especially those in a call centre, cannot possibly know the full terms of every product, or be expected to provide complete information with 100% accuracy during real-time conversations.
• The terms should still be rewritten, preferably with an endnote.

ForumUser7

Nick_C said:

ForumUser7 said:

I was told a couple of weeks ago that for Blue Rewards, Faster Payments of the £800 will not count - even from external current account - and I have to set up standing order. Is this definitely correct? Seems to be a bit of unclarity on the topic.

Sensory said:...

You believe that you have interpreted the terms correctly.  Barclays staff have a different view.  The terms are therefore ambiguous - they are open to interpretation.

wmb194 said: 
...
 

Always, always take anything a bank employee, and particularly a frontline one, tells you with a massive pinch of salt. On the face of it a, "regular payment" as a deposit requirement is just silly as lots of people don't receive these, or at least not of the size required.

A regular monthly deposit into a current account probably doesn't seem silly to the bank.  The bank wants / expects you to use a current account for managing your day to day finances.  Paying in your pension, salary, or other income and paying your bills by direct debit.  And £800 a month is a not an excessive requirement for an account that offers rewards.

wmb194 said: 
...
 

The terms state ... 

They're badly written but actually straightforward in that there is no exclusion for a one-off deposit from an external account.

https://www.barclays.co.uk/current-accounts/blue-rewards-terms-conditions/

They are badly written, and they are ambiguous.

The terms state 

"Please see below for more information on what will count towards your £800 payment"

"When working out how much you have paid into your nominated bank account, we won’t count:

• one-off internal transfers between Barclays accounts in your name, including any joint accounts or savings accounts. Regular payments set up as standing orders or Direct Debits from your personal Barclays accounts, a Barclays Business Account or your non-Barclays accounts will count towards your qualifying amount"

So in a section on what they won't count, they give an example of something that they will count.  They say a regular payment set up as a standing order will count.  

They do not say whether an ad hoc credit (faster payment) will count or not.

The fact that they say "regular payment" suggests they regard it as important.  The fact that they categorise incoming payments as either "regular payments" or "credits" suggests they they see them as two different things.

The fact that they sent emails to a lot of new customers in mid October to say we hadn't funded our accounts, when in fact we had, suggests that they are looking for regular payments and not ad hoc ones.

The fact that Barclays official representatives - their call centre staff - give this advice makes it pretty clear what they want.

Now Barclays really need to clear up this badly written wording in the T&Cs and remove the ambiguity.  But anyone who insists on continuing to fund their account by ad hoc faster payments instead of a standing order risks not getting the £5 credit to offset the Blue Rewards Fee, and risks getting into a dispute / complaint with Barclays.  This can easily be prevented by following the advice of their customer services staff and setting up a standing order.  You need to fund the account with £800 each month, so whether you do this by SO or Faster Payment is immaterial, but could save you some trouble further down the line.

ForumUser7 said:

I was told a couple of weeks ago that for Blue Rewards, Faster Payments of the £800 will not count - even from external current account - and I have to set up standing order. Is this definitely correct? Seems to be a bit of unclarity on the topic.

@forumuser7 If you want a definitive answer to this, you should really contact Barclays.

@nick_c I have, but they said manual transfers from external accounts do not qualify. As @sensory has said, it is really just a different answer dependent on which agent you get through to which is not very good tbh. I think I'll do it manually given the terms do not definitively state manual payments are ineligible. If for some reason I am charged the fee, which seems unlikely, I will complain and fund by SO in the future. I'm not a big fan of automated payments (when they can be avoided), especially given lots of my funds are kept in accounts that do not allow repeat/recurring payments. Thanks for everyone's help with this - hopefully Barclays improve the wording of that term in the future.

wmb194

ForumUser7 said:

Nick_C said:

ForumUser7 said:

I was told a couple of weeks ago that for Blue Rewards, Faster Payments of the £800 will not count - even from external current account - and I have to set up standing order. Is this definitely correct? Seems to be a bit of unclarity on the topic.

Sensory said:...

You believe that you have interpreted the terms correctly.  Barclays staff have a different view.  The terms are therefore ambiguous - they are open to interpretation.

wmb194 said: 
...
 

Always, always take anything a bank employee, and particularly a frontline one, tells you with a massive pinch of salt. On the face of it a, "regular payment" as a deposit requirement is just silly as lots of people don't receive these, or at least not of the size required.

A regular monthly deposit into a current account probably doesn't seem silly to the bank.  The bank wants / expects you to use a current account for managing your day to day finances.  Paying in your pension, salary, or other income and paying your bills by direct debit.  And £800 a month is a not an excessive requirement for an account that offers rewards.

wmb194 said: 
...
 

The terms state ... 

They're badly written but actually straightforward in that there is no exclusion for a one-off deposit from an external account.

https://www.barclays.co.uk/current-accounts/blue-rewards-terms-conditions/

They are badly written, and they are ambiguous.

The terms state 

"Please see below for more information on what will count towards your £800 payment"

"When working out how much you have paid into your nominated bank account, we won’t count:

• one-off internal transfers between Barclays accounts in your name, including any joint accounts or savings accounts. Regular payments set up as standing orders or Direct Debits from your personal Barclays accounts, a Barclays Business Account or your non-Barclays accounts will count towards your qualifying amount"

So in a section on what they won't count, they give an example of something that they will count.  They say a regular payment set up as a standing order will count.  

They do not say whether an ad hoc credit (faster payment) will count or not.

The fact that they say "regular payment" suggests they regard it as important.  The fact that they categorise incoming payments as either "regular payments" or "credits" suggests they they see them as two different things.

The fact that they sent emails to a lot of new customers in mid October to say we hadn't funded our accounts, when in fact we had, suggests that they are looking for regular payments and not ad hoc ones.

The fact that Barclays official representatives - their call centre staff - give this advice makes it pretty clear what they want.

Now Barclays really need to clear up this badly written wording in the T&Cs and remove the ambiguity.  But anyone who insists on continuing to fund their account by ad hoc faster payments instead of a standing order risks not getting the £5 credit to offset the Blue Rewards Fee, and risks getting into a dispute / complaint with Barclays.  This can easily be prevented by following the advice of their customer services staff and setting up a standing order.  You need to fund the account with £800 each month, so whether you do this by SO or Faster Payment is immaterial, but could save you some trouble further down the line.

ForumUser7 said:

I was told a couple of weeks ago that for Blue Rewards, Faster Payments of the £800 will not count - even from external current account - and I have to set up standing order. Is this definitely correct? Seems to be a bit of unclarity on the topic.

@forumuser7 If you want a definitive answer to this, you should really contact Barclays.

@nick_c I have, but they said manual transfers from external accounts do not qualify. As @sensory has said, it is really just a different answer dependent on which agent you get through to which is not very good tbh. I think I'll do it manually given the terms do not definitively state manual payments are ineligible. If for some reason I am charged the fee, which seems unlikely, I will complain and fund by SO in the future. I'm not a big fan of automated payments (when they can be avoided), especially given lots of my funds are kept in accounts that do not allow repeat/recurring payments. Thanks for everyone's help with this - hopefully Barclays improve the wording of that term in the future.

We know they qualify as a lot of us are doing them and we receive the reward plus the terms don't state that they don't qualify. The person you spoke to is mistaken - it's the terms that matter, not what a customer service agent says. In addition, I don't remember any bank ever stating explicitly that an ad-hoc faster payment qualifies or doesn't for rewards, interest etc. just a deposit. The same as this one. Don't worry about it.

Band7

I am happy to continue making my deposit manually, and I am supremely confident that these deposits will continue to count towards the eligibility criteria for Blue Rewards, like they have done since Blue Rewards first came into existence.

Clearly, if Barclays ever change the T&Cs pertaining to these deposits, I will review my approach. But until they do, I don't need to.

The End.