Economy 7 and ending of RTS (Radio Teleswitch Service)

BarelySentientAI

lilac_dawn said:

Swipe said:

Make sure they arrange an appointment to install a 5 terminal smart meter and not one with just 4 and ask them to confirm that it will only power your storage heaters at night. Get that in writing and verbal confirmation from the installer before they begin the work. Also take photos of your old meter's day and night readings before the work starts.

Why would it need to only power the storage heaters at night please? Surely everything used at night should be on cheap rate for Econ 7?

They are meaning make sure it doesn't accidentally get set to power the storage heaters in the day (on expensive rate).

Ildhund

I have a feeling that the system where heating and hot water are fed from a separate circuit was originally a fraud-prevention measure devised to stop the customer from powering anything else at a preferential heating rate. This may have been in the early days when heating rates were perhaps subsidised from the public purse - does anyone know if this was the case? Why else would the equipment be hard-wired, with no plugs and sockets that could easily be hijacked for nefarious purposes? Admittedly, it also has the advantage of making sure that an unwary customer can't unwittingly start using legitimate power-hungry equipment at peak rate.

Since modern (smart) meters only distinguish between time of use and not type of use, the five-wire meter is probably an anachronism. It's probably easier to install a five-wire meter in a property already wired for the old arrangement, but it doesn't look like any sort of a necessity like @Swipe is suggesting. It will depend on the heating appliances installed, of course, because they would have to have timing controls to limit their time of use to offpeak hours. 

Any old codgers around to confirm or refute this? 

BarelySentientAI

Old storage heaters didn't always have 24 hour timers.  When the supply to them went live, they turned on.

That's why you needed a switched supply - either a 5 terminal meter or an external switch of some sort (mechanical timer, radio teleswitch...).  Perfectly possible to, and most do, have a second fusebox from that supply and nobody has ever cared what was connected to that fusebox.

The systems that were restricted to certain types of load (usually heating and/or hot water) used 2 meters for that purpose.

The equipment was hard wired because it was a big load on a small cable, you wouldn't want to blow the fuse by plugging other things in.  Plus you wouldn't want sockets that only worked at night.

Yes, if you want to have local timers on all your heaters and make sure that they are set to the same time as your meter (including BST changes and any drift), that would also work.

Ildhund

BarelySentientAI said:

Yes, if you want to have local timers on all your heaters ...

Modern ones do, I think. My immersion heater has an antique Horstmann clockwork timer that needs a little twist twice a year to account for BST.

Qyburn

Ildhund said:

I have a feeling that the system where heating and hot water are fed from a separate circuit was originally a fraud-prevention measure devised to stop the customer from powering anything else at a preferential heating rate. 

Don't think that can have been the case. My parents had an off peak system back in the '80s and the whole house was billed at the cheap rate overnight.

Spoonie_Turtle

Qyburn said:

Ildhund said:

I have a feeling that the system where heating and hot water are fed from a separate circuit was originally a fraud-prevention measure devised to stop the customer from powering anything else at a preferential heating rate. 

Don't think that can have been the case. My parents had an off peak system back in the '80s and the whole house was billed at the cheap rate overnight.

We had Economy 10 in the early-90s until 2019, and ditto.

Could it possibly have been true for the complex 'comfort'-type tariffs that have three separate rates for day/night/heating?

MBR1

I am constantly receiving emails from EDF about the RTS shutdown in March 2025. And they want to install a smart meter. Is my meter a RTS metre, do i need to have it changed?

Swipe

MBR1 said:

I am constantly receiving emails from EDF about the RTS shutdown in March 2025. And they want to install a smart meter. Is my meter a RTS metre, do i need to have it changed?

No, that's not an RTS, It's a trusty old mechanical timer switch.

Spoonie_Turtle

However when its certification period runs out (25 years, if you can find a date on it) you will need it to be replaced and that'll almost certainly be with a smart meter.

MBR1

Swipe said:

MBR1 said:

I am constantly receiving emails from EDF about the RTS shutdown in March 2025. And they want to install a smart meter. Is my meter a RTS metre, do i need to have it changed?

No, that's not an RTS, It's a trusty old mechanical timer switch.

Thanks for letting me know. EDF just seem to be really insistent constant letters and emails about getting a smart meter, and claiming my meter is RTS, which as you said it is not.