Private sale help

born_again

Becky44474 said:

The majority say ignore but I feel so rude!

We sold a car, with 12 month mot, fully working and driven 200 miles by myself to the buyer, as requested by them. 

They loved the car. They have now had the misfortune of the timing chain breaking and have asked for a full refund quoting the consumer rights act 2015. I have informed them this does not specifically apply to our situation, as it was a private sale. Though it still keeps getting quoted. 

I 100% know we've done nothing wrong. We specifically waited until. We had 12 months mot on it, to do our best to make sure it was a reliable vehicle. There's no way we could have known the belt would snap or break. If it has. There's been no photo evidence of this just of the actual engine.. Though I don't know where it is and how easy it would be to photograph. 

I honestly feel so bad for them. It escalated so quickly, one minute we're chatting on the phone and im getting an update on the cars situation and 12 hours later I'm asked for a full refund and everything has been switched to formal letters, no further texts or calls. 

I know that the car was sold as advertised, and that it was roadworthy at point of sale! 

MOT is only a basic roadworthiness check. It does not cover things like timing chains..

Seems to me driving it 200 miles to them, is more than enough. 

As other's block them. They will go away. Could even be a scam to get money back given they know you will never see the car again.

Grumpy_chap

Becky44474 said:

I was going to respond to the last letter and pick each of his points.. And end with something that shows we're done now and will not partake in this back and forth anymore... 

Or is that not wise? Or is it just that its not worth my time? 

Thank you all for your help. 

The more you do or say, the deeper hole you may be digging for yourself.

Unless you receive Letter Before Action, simply cease communication.

You have already done more than enough delivering the car to them 200 miles away and paying for the sensor they thought the fault was.  If they'd opened the bonnet when they asked for the sensor, they'd have seen the belt was snapped - it is a catastrophic failure that causes the car to become immobile.

The more you say, the more this looks like a scam.
What parts have they changed on the car and try to give you back a broken box of bits that cost you money to collect?

How old was the car?
Had the cambelt been changed as per schedule?
Even if not, had you said (or implied) it was changed?

Mrs44474

Undervalued said:

Becky44474 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Private sale so it is totally "caveat emptor".

You have already been generous in providing a "part" as a goodwill gesture.  What was that part?
If the timing belt went, that would be apparent immediately it went.

Who tampered with the timing belt?  Was it the buyer?  How do they know it had been tampered with, given the belt went?

Anyway, you need to avoid any further engagement with them.  Definitely do not offer a sum of money back.
The only exception would be depending on the nature of these "formal letters" - are these just letters to threaten, or are these formal legal letters - letter before action?

It was a camshaft censor, that's what they thought it was.. 

The tampering of the timing belt I've no idea. I think theyre trying to imply we tampered with it to get it sold? Something about a fudged job to silicone a cover or something. I have no idea. Though that was only mentioned in text and phone call and they've not mentioned that since, which is weird. They just keep saying the belt has slipped/snapped.

The formal letters are just templates that I assume people use for car sales from businesses.. Nothing from small claims. I'm sure the judge wouldn't even give it time of day, but we've been screwed over with parking tickets before through small claims when we were in the right too! 

When was the timing belt / chain last changed?

This is an important item which should be changed at the manufacturer's recommended interval which will be a combination of age and miles. Although they will often last far longer it can do substantial damage to the engine if it fails, hence the replacement schedule. Sometimes one will fail early, either due to another fault that puts excessive load on the belt / chain or very very occasionally due to a defect in the belt or chain.

If you can show that it was changed as recommended then you have done nothing wrong. If, on the other hand you knew that it was due for changing or were totally negligent then the buyer has at least a moral case!

As other have said legally it is generally "caveat emptor" but not if the item was deliberately missdescribed. They might try to claim (perhaps falsely) that they asked about this critical item and you wrongly told them it was in date.

It hasn't been changed... To our knowledge a chain lasted the duration of the engine compared to a cambelt.. We tried to think of everything to tell them. It wasn't deliberately missdescibed. They didn't ask a d we didn't mention it, not deliberately, it just didn't come up and we didn't think about it! 

Mrs44474

Grumpy_chap said:

Becky44474 said:

I was going to respond to the last letter and pick each of his points.. And end with something that shows we're done now and will not partake in this back and forth anymore... 

Or is that not wise? Or is it just that its not worth my time? 

Thank you all for your help. 

The more you do or say, the deeper hole you may be digging for yourself.

Unless you receive Letter Before Action, simply cease communication.

You have already done more than enough delivering the car to them 200 miles away and paying for the sensor they thought the fault was.  If they'd opened the bonnet when they asked for the sensor, they'd have seen the belt was snapped - it is a catastrophic failure that causes the car to become immobile.

The more you say, the more this looks like a scam.
What parts have they changed on the car and try to give you back a broken box of bits that cost you money to collect?

How old was the car?
Had the cambelt been changed as per schedule?
Even if not, had you said (or implied) it was changed?

It's 14 years old, old and was priced accordingly. No the timing chain wasn't ever changed, at least not by us. They have the paperwork now, so I can't check it. I definitely did not imply it had been changed. It never even came up. The only question they asked is when can you deliver it! 

Mrs44474

My dad's a mechanic, and he's looked at the photos they have sent, and he said it would be obvious the timing belt has gone, and it doesn't seem so in the photos... I don't know 🙈🙈

The_Fat_Controller

IGNORE THEM !

pinkshoes

Becky44474 said:

They loved the car. They have now had the misfortune of the timing chain breaking and have asked for a full refund quoting the consumer rights act 2015. I have informed them this does not specifically apply to our situation, as it was a private sale. Though it still keeps getting quoted. 

Consumer Rights do not apply as this was a private sale.

You advertised the car correctly with 12 months MOT. It's a 14 year old car. You'd never had an issues with it. I'm assuming they viewed it, had it checked over, test drove it? I'm assuming it had been serviced regularly too?

It's very unfortunate that it has broken down, and natural to feel bad, but you cannot be held responsible for that. It's part of the risk of buying a second hand car, particularly an old one.

If they take legal action, THEN you need to respond, but as you sold it in good faith then you have nothing to worry about.

We have been the buyer in this scenario. DH bought a 2 year old motorbike from a private seller, and the second time he rode it, the engine blew. There was nothing we could do as the seller wasn't to know it would happen. Perhaps the seller rode it round like a lunatic and thrashed the hell out of it?! But there was no way we could prove that, the advert just stated the facts, DH test drove it and checked it before buying etc... DH bought a second hand engine from a scrap yard (people crash these bikes a lot and write them off!) and fitted it himself and all was fine, but we had to pay for that.

Mrs44474

@pinkshoes

They were shown the vehicle via facetime, decided they wanted it, and didn't want to test drive it when we got there.. They didn't have anyone there to check it over and, well we're not mechanics, we had the go ahead it was ready for sale after Mot from our mechanic, so we were happy.

They had no questions. We told them it hadn't been serviced for a few years, since 2019,so really needed one, expecting them to knock us down in price for that but they didn't.. We shown them all previous service receipts.. We had originally bought it with full service history and the car dealership never sent us it, which he agreed on paper he would send. We explained all of this too.

Really sorry to hear of your issues but sounds like you just got on and dealt with the misfortune. Vehicles suck. 

macman

14 year old car and they didn't want to test drive it, or even view it before purchase? This is just an obvious scam, so please stop engaging with these people and beating yourself up about it. Cut all communication and block them, you will hear no more. 

Grumpy_chap

macman said:

14 year old car and they didn't want to test drive it, or even view it before purchase? This is just an obvious scam, so please stop engaging with these people and beating yourself up about it. 

I'd agree, except some of the actions buy the OP are a little "trader-like" - especially the driving it 200 miles to deliver.
Does that indicate the buyer thought this was a trade sale and the CCR would apply?

I currently have a car for sale and there is no way I would spend my time driving 200 miles (and I've got to get back somehow) to meet a person who will buy the car.  How would I know they'll be there?  Or complete the deal?  Or not just a complete scam?
(Oh - Ooops)