Energy Price Guarantee (announced 8 Sep): initial reaction & questions

[Deleted User]

If the chancellor has done something that hasn't yet been announced, that might have changed a number that has already been announced?

In the old world, the cap was excluding VAT.

In the new world, we haven't actually seen the cap numbers yet (only the unit prices worked out from them), and the £2500 figure is an average of averages that nobody actually pays.

From what we can tell, the caps already vary by more than £150 from region to region, so you're asking about if VAT is included in a fake number - it doesn't matter.

jiggy2

The government will also provide an additional payment of £100 to households across the UK who are not able to receive support for their heating costs through the Energy Price Guarantee. This might be because they live in an area of the UK that is not served by the gas grid and is to compensate for the rising costs of alternative fuels such as heating oil.

Plus help for businesses also mentioned here.

Government outlines plans to help cut energy bills for businesses - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

lean&mean

This may have been asked before, but I really hope the price cap for the standing charge will also apply to those on existing fixes.  This sneaky charge has been increasing every year and certain fixes seem to have higher standing charges than the normal tariffs. If we really want to discourage people from using too much energy all the costs of both the energy and the network should be built into a per-unit charge.  I went onto a 2 year fix with Eon back in March which left me paying slightly more than the April cap, but the standing charge is still higher than the new price cap's.

[Deleted User]

The standing charge isn't "sneaky".  It's possibly the best documented and most directly explained piece of the entire thing!

There is no evidence that there will be any changes to standing charges on fixed tariffs.  In fact, all the information available at the moment suggests that they will not be changed.

lean&mean

[Deleted User] said:

The standing charge isn't "sneaky".  It's possibly the best documented and most directly explained piece of the entire thing!

There is no evidence that there will be any changes to standing charges on fixed tariffs.  In fact, all the information available at the moment suggests that they will not be changed.

Perhaps 'sneaky' isn't the best word, but a charge that is different on different tariffs and doesn't encourage reducing usage seems counter-productive.

lean&mean

jiggy2 said:

The government will also provide an additional payment of £100 to households across the UK who are not able to receive support for their heating costs through the Energy Price Guarantee. This might be because they live in an area of the UK that is not served by the gas grid and is to compensate for the rising costs of alternative fuels such as heating oil.

Plus help for businesses also mentioned here.

Government outlines plans to help cut energy bills for businesses - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Thanks for spotting this jiggy2.  Is it just me or does just £100 seem a bit mean?  My sister has an oil fired boiler because her village has no gas.  The price of oil has at least doubled in 6 months.  Why should households not using gas or electricity only get £100?  Surely something approaching the same payment that gas and electric customers get would be fairer.

[Deleted User]

lean&mean said:

Deleted_User said:

The standing charge isn't "sneaky".  It's possibly the best documented and most directly explained piece of the entire thing!

There is no evidence that there will be any changes to standing charges on fixed tariffs.  In fact, all the information available at the moment suggests that they will not be changed.

Perhaps 'sneaky' isn't the best word, but a charge that is different on different tariffs and doesn't encourage reducing usage seems counter-productive.

You're going to have your mind blown when you realise that all of the caps and charges are different for every tariff, region and payment method combination.

Standing charge represents reasonably well the fixed cost of having a household connected to the network.  It's not supposed to encourage reducing usage.

lean&mean said:

jiggy2 said:

The government will also provide an additional payment of £100 to households across the UK who are not able to receive support for their heating costs through the Energy Price Guarantee. This might be because they live in an area of the UK that is not served by the gas grid and is to compensate for the rising costs of alternative fuels such as heating oil.

Plus help for businesses also mentioned here.

Government outlines plans to help cut energy bills for businesses - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Thanks for spotting this jiggy2.  Is it just me or does just £100 seem a bit mean?  My sister has an oil fired boiler because her village has no gas.  The price of oil has at least doubled in 6 months.  Why should households not using gas or electricity only get £100?  Surely something approaching the same payment that gas and electric customers get would be fairer.

The new cap on gas price (the most common heating fuel) is roughly equivalent to a £1 per litre oil price.  Would a cap at that price not, therefore, be a fair option in your opinion?

Chrysalis

Qyburn said:

EssexHebridean said:

using night storage heaters at a cost not quite so far above the price those of you using gas central heating are paying... 

As for why EV owners get the benefit of cheaper rates to charge them - that is because EVs are currently seen as the only way forwards for personal transport - so the push is on to persuade everyone across to them - even if they categorically do not suit the living arrangements or lifestyles of those being pushed... 

We don't have mains gas, nor is it available anywhere within 16 miles of us.

I'm aware of the benefits of off-peak tariffs, but my understanding is that it was the other way round and people started using night storage heaters because off-peak tariffs were offered.

Regarding the special EV tariffs, are these subsidised by government, or are they loss making for the suppliers?

My opinion is they subsidised but I have nothing to verify that opinion, the agile tariff which follows wholesale costs hourly has night time rates nowhere near octopus go.

QrizB

Chrysalis said:

Qyburn said:

Regarding the special EV tariffs, are these subsidised by government, or are they loss making for the suppliers?

My opinion is they subsidised but I have nothing to verify that opinion, the agile tariff which follows wholesale costs hourly has night time rates nowhere near octopus go.

Octopus state that they make a loss on their Go and Go Faster EV tariffs.

MSE_James

Sea_Shell said:

I've just had an idea ...

Maybe the forum needs to come up with an equivalent of a "statement of affairs" but for energy.

A list of all the likely appliances that a household may have, that you can check and tick (or cross) off.

With additional headings for how your home/water is heated.

Anyone querying their usage could be asked to complete one, to see where their energy (money) goes.

It would save a lot of time and investigative (repetitive, for those trying to help) questions.


@MSE_James

Thank you for this @sea_shell - an excellent suggestion -  we've actually been looking recently at a possible add-on for the forum which would work very well for something along those lines.