Energy Price Guarantee (announced 8 Sep): initial reaction & questions

[Deleted User]

QrizB said:

I'll put one together for the SEG once there's a government announcement - although I could try back-calculating from EDF's rate card.

Seems odd that they've not published anything particularly detailed yet - the numbers must be there in the background as there is the full EdF card (and other tariffs we know about seem to match it).

molerat

QrizB said:

Molerat linked to the October 2022 post.

Oooops

55Ant

Bulb update on their site ( I cant include links yet but its in their 'blog' section

Tariff rates to be live by Monday 26th

EssexHebridean

Qyburn said:

[Deleted User] said:

Qyburn said:

Deleted_User said:

Did you notice the most recent news on this?  It seems that offering people a 52p per unit discount isn't considered enough motivation to shift demand away from the peak - the conclusion was that it would need to be somewhere nearer a £2 per unit payment for enough people to change their behaviour.

Presumably the increase in electric cars will eventually mean that overnight electricity becomes more expensive, as the load from EV charging will be greater than normal domestic use.

Already is sometimes - for tomorrow's market the cheapest price is between 3pm and 4pm, less than 70% of the price between 11pm and midnight.

I saw comment along those lines earlier. Which begs the questions why do electric car owners get cheaper electricity in any case, and why are overnight "off peak" tariffs still being offered?

Overnight off peak tariffs well and truly pre-date electric cars. For those of us still using traditional electric-only heating, the off-peak E7 TOU type tariffs mean we come slightly closer to being able to heat our homes using night storage heaters at a cost not quite so far above the price those of you using gas central heating are paying... 

As for why EV owners get the benefit of cheaper rates to charge them - that is because EVs are currently seen as the only way forwards for personal transport - so the push is on to persuade everyone across to them - even if they categorically do not suit the living arrangements or lifestyles of those being pushed... 

Qyburn

EssexHebridean said:

using night storage heaters at a cost not quite so far above the price those of you using gas central heating are paying... 

As for why EV owners get the benefit of cheaper rates to charge them - that is because EVs are currently seen as the only way forwards for personal transport - so the push is on to persuade everyone across to them - even if they categorically do not suit the living arrangements or lifestyles of those being pushed... 

We don't have mains gas, nor is it available anywhere within 16 miles of us.

I'm aware of the benefits of off-peak tariffs, but my understanding is that it was the other way round and people started using night storage heaters because off-peak tariffs were offered.

Regarding the special EV tariffs, are these subsidised by government, or are they loss making for the suppliers?

MattMattMattUK

Qyburn said:

EssexHebridean said:

using night storage heaters at a cost not quite so far above the price those of you using gas central heating are paying... 

As for why EV owners get the benefit of cheaper rates to charge them - that is because EVs are currently seen as the only way forwards for personal transport - so the push is on to persuade everyone across to them - even if they categorically do not suit the living arrangements or lifestyles of those being pushed... 

We don't have mains gas, nor is it available anywhere within 16 miles of us.

I'm aware of the benefits of off-peak tariffs, but my understanding is that it was the other way round and people started using night storage heaters because off-peak tariffs were offered.

A combination of both, there was seen to be a need and there was excess generation at night, so it made sense, it was developed in tandem. 

Qyburn said:

Regarding the special EV tariffs, are these subsidised by government, or are they loss making for the suppliers?

As far as I understand it, no, but others might have different information. My understanding is that it is related to having spare capacity at night even when generators are run down to their lowest levels, so that energy is available cheaply and there is an encouragement for that to be used in new/efficient ways. 

[Deleted User]

A lot less of the day/night price cycle than there used to be.  It's now a lot flatter with two distinct peaks rather than midday being noticeably more expensive than midnight.

Also interesting to note that Monday this week (19th - in orange) looked a lot like a weekend day with no morning peak, but then had its usual evening peak.  Just shows how things outside the market can have a big effect on prices.

Sea_Shell

I've just had an idea ...

Maybe the forum needs to come up with an equivalent of a "statement of affairs" but for energy.

A list of all the likely appliances that a household may have, that you can check and tick (or cross) off.

With additional headings for how your home/water is heated.

Anyone querying their usage could be asked to complete one, to see where their energy (money) goes.

It would save a lot of time and investigative (repetitive, for those trying to help) questions.


@MSE_James

EssexHebridean

That's a really good idea @Sea_Shell - I'll flag @MSE_Martin as well - although I have no idea whether he still reads the forum at all... (his user profile suggests not, but that could well simply be deactivated of course) 

Mike360

Apologies if this has been covered before - if the chancellor removed VAT from our bills then the price guarantee increase for an average household is actually £2625 and not £2500. Because the unit rate usually gets reduced to allow for the VAT to be added. Am I right on this?