Help Please - Problem with Plumber - What are our rights if any?

2bFrank

Whiskas12 said:

The thing is he didn't provide us with his terms and conditions. He assumed we had them from a job he did for us in March 2021! My other half just managed to dig them out in his emails. 

What happens if he takes us to court?

Very difficult to say, depends on the day.

The court will ask for a breakdown of the invoice, they will ask how long he was there, if under a hour, they will ask what he charges per hour and allow them to charge for the hour (if reasonable). They will be certainly entitled to something, it would be expected that they wouldn't work for free and you would have known that someone doesn't work for free. How much of the £70 they will be entitled too would be upto to the court, depending on your location, I'd say £70 per hour isn't unreasonable in todays economy.

Bendy_House

Whiskas12 said:

The thing is he didn't provide us with his terms and conditions. He assumed we had them from a job he did for us in March 2021! My other half just managed to dig them out in his emails. 

What happens if he takes us to court?

No idea. I suspect you'd lose. I suspect - on advice - you'd capitulate before it came to court... But, I don't know. It'll likely depend on a few factors.

Should a plumber answer a call with "Please read my T&Cs before proceeding"? Should they state what their charges are - callout and subsequent hourly rate? Or should the customer ask this? I don't know!

Some plumbers charge more for the first callout/hour's work, and then a lower rate for subsequent hours. Others have a lower initial callout charge as they understand the customer will first want a diagnosis, and then an estimate for the actual repair. And then others will just have a fixed hourly rate - which I presume yours does.

I'd like to think that such tradesfolk would take each situation into consideration; if they pop in on the way to another job, diagnose the problem, tell you what to buy, and let you know when you have it and they'll come back to fix it - in-out-20 minutes, off to next job - they might round-off the whole bill to reflect that it really wasn't a big call on their time, and it didn't interfere with the rest of their day. But, there is no onus on them to do this.

Whiskas, I think in this situation - if the T&Cs state the hourly rate and payment terms - I'd just swallow it. You still want the job done.

But, there's no getting away from this guy being an unprofessional 'ole :-)

LV_426

I would say you owe the guy. He didn't fit anything, but showed you how to isolate it. You're paying for that advice, and the callout.
He does sound like an !!!!!!, but I would pay up as I don't fancy your chances in court. Chalk it down to experience, and put him on your blacklist.

macman

He's not going to take you to court for £70. It's just an LBA to push you into paying. £70 for the callout is reasonable. Obviously you won't be using him again.

grumbler

macman said:

 £70 for the callout is reasonable.

It is IMO, but only if it covers at least 30 minutes of work.

Whiskas12

I didn't know it worked like this. Every time we have had work done in this house we have always paid on completion. So for example, our dishwasher was broken. The guy came out and told us the problem and ordered the part, he then came back and fixed it and we paid him at the end. My other half has been chasing the plumber to come and do the work and he hasn't come back to us or arranged a time to complete it. Our worry is pay the £70 (£90 with VAT added) and then he doesn't come back. Then we have no leg to stand on. Although now because we have queried payment now he has got narky and said he won't come back anyway. 

LV_426

grumbler said:

macman said:

 £70 for the callout is reasonable.

It is IMO, but only if it covers at least 30 minutes of work.

Depends what you call work. I think the problem was assessed, and the customer was advised how to isolate the toilet.
If I take my car into the garage with a problem, they could possibly charge me for an initial assessment of the problem.
It is in his T&Cs though. Whether the customer was aware of these would be a point of argument in court, if it got to that stage.

grumbler

LV_426 said:

grumbler said:

macman said:

 £70 for the callout is reasonable.

It is IMO, but only if it covers at least 30 minutes of work.

Depends what you call work. I think the problem was assessed, and the customer was advised how to isolate the toilet.
If I take my car into the garage with a problem, they could possibly charge me for an initial assessment of the problem.
It is in his T&Cs though. Whether the customer was aware of these would be a point of argument in court, if it got to that stage.

I agree.
I was carried away by the OP's statement "A call-out charge is a charge for coming out to you which is on top of the cost of any work or repairs."
In fact, in this case it's " a minimum charge of 1 hr", i.e. 1-hour labor is included that is very fair.

Bendy_House

Whiskas12 said:

I didn't know it worked like this. Every time we have had work done in this house we have always paid on completion. So for example, our dishwasher was broken. The guy came out and told us the problem and ordered the part, he then came back and fixed it and we paid him at the end. My other half has been chasing the plumber to come and do the work and he hasn't come back to us or arranged a time to complete it. Our worry is pay the £70 (£90 with VAT added) and then he doesn't come back. Then we have no leg to stand on. Although now because we have queried payment now he has got narky and said he won't come back anyway. 

It doesn't always work like that. I'm surprised the guy wants the callout fee paid before he comes out to finish the job. Very pedantic of him, and a pain for the customer having to make two payments - really poor customer service.

I wonder what his 'reasoning' is? Does he fear you won't want to pay for the actual repair, since £70 for the diagnosis is already a fair sum? Especially since he left YOU to buy the part - that saved him a fair bit of hassle! I mean, £140 for this fix - if that's what he's proposing to charge you - is pretty high (tho' cannot be deemed, these days, to be 'unreasonable').

Or is he just a belligerent type?

Who knows.

You do owe ultimately him that sum, tho'. Would he chase you for it if you refused to pay until the job was completed? Highly unlikely, since you made it clear you WOULD be paying it. Would he chase you for it if you just told him to 'your contract has been ended due to your attitude'?! Hmm, I don't know - he might think he's heading down a murky hole, so might decide to leave it even tho' technically he would win!

BUT, you do owe him...

DE_612183

He sent you an invoice for work carried out which he believed that you would pay as you understood his T&Cs.

You then sent an email saying you wouldn't pay until the whole job was complete.

He then got sarky saying you can't dictate the T&Cs I work under.

I do think if you'd have actually had a conversation on the telephone rather than an email that the whole situation could have been resolved more easily.

Sometimes, emails can interpreted differently from the way the sender intended - phone conversations are always better as you can exchange views and the tone can also be interpreted as well as the message.

My advice - pay the man the £70, apologise for the confusion ( you never meant to say you would not pay, just that you would pay the whole amount at the end ) - I'd even do this on the phone - you could ask him back to complete the job, or just use a different plumber.