Help Please - Problem with Plumber - What are our rights if any?

Whiskas12

We had a problem with our upstairs toilet, in that water was constantly pouring down it (cistern overflowing). We had our water turned off in the whole house to stop water being wasted, so that wasn't a problem, we'd just turn it on and off as needed.  We needed to get it fixed so contacted a plumber we used last year to fix a leaking tap. 

The plumber turned up, he took a look and said we needed to go online and order a part to fix it. This took about 15mins. He also told us that we could isolate the toilet to stop the water running constantly. 

We believed that we would order the part and he would then come back and fix the toilet and then provide us with an invoice.

We then got an invoice for £70. But no work had been done. 

So my partner emailed him to say that we would pay him once the work had been complete, as we had ordered the part and were ready for him to fix what he thought the problem was. 

He has sent a very snarky email back. He said 

a) what do you think from what I've already done doesn't qualify as invoiceable work to date?

and

b) You were issued with T&C's stating my terms in March 21 for the first job that I did for you, they are the criteria I work to and I don't do the work unless the client accepts them. It is not for you to dictate what or when you'll pay when you have already accepted the T&C's.

 

When I arrived your cistern was continually overflowing and un-isolatable, when I left it was isolatable and usable with a manual refill and shut off until the correct part could be googled in. It's not my fault that the part wasn't available locally and you were informed prior to my arrival that it might be a case of two visits if it's a manufacturers specific part that is required in my WhatsApp message to you on the 28th July . Once I'd been you were given the information to Google in the required part.

 

In response to your assumption that the first invoice covers two visits I can assure you that it does not and quite frankly I'm amazed that you think it does when you have a copy of my T&C's.

 

My T&C's in Charges and payment state in 2&3 there is a minimum charge of 1 hr and in 8. you're given 10 days to pay. My T&C's have changed in the last 18months with an hourly rate Labour charge increase.

 

As for getting close to my diary I don't return to a site that has an unpaid invoice and given the extra administration involved in having to pursue this first payment I won't be returning in this case even if the invoice is paid.

I can't even remember the last time I had trouble getting paid but in the extremely rare cases where payment isn't made by the due date I give the client one week from notice of overdue payment to pay, if the client doesn't pay then I file a claim with MCOL. I notified you that you were overdue on the 17th August so I look forward to your overdue payment before the 24th August to prevent this progressing further.

 

My time is valuable, in order to devote it to the deserving customers who do pay on time without complaint there'll be no further correspondence or conversations entered into regarding this matter until we're in front of the magistrate.

We now don't know what to do. Is anybody able to advise us of our rights. We have found his Ts and Cs from March 21. He never sent us anything this time around. The Ts and Cs say that 

You will be invoiced after the work has been completed, on larger jobs you will be invoiced at the

end of each week. The account details to pay to will be on your invoice.

But as far as we are concerned he has done absolutely nothing to fix the problem. 

Now worried that we have to pay £70 and it has got us absolutely nowhere. 

Thanks

littleboo

did he fit an isolation valve during the visit?

Whiskas12

No he did not fit anything at all. He showed us how to isolate the toilet by pulling a handle in the airing cupboard and then moving something in the cistern. So no, no fitting. 

Whiskas12

He told us what part we needed, gave us the name of it and told us to order it and that he would then come back and fit it. There was no mention of this being another separate job, to be charged separately. 

womble12345

Sounds to me like he allowed you to isolate the toilet rather than the whole house and told you the part you needed, you could do neither of these things before he came. I think that deserves payment.

2bFrank

What would you expect the plumber to do, come back and charge just for the fix. They will invoice for the first visit anyways. The have visited, investigated the problem, shown you how to isolate the toilet so you can continue to use water without shutting off the whole system and shown what part is needed (although im not sure why they haven't ordered it themselves).

I'll be honest £70 for a hours work (they have worked, even if they haven't fixed anything) isn't unreasonable for a plumber in these times.

Whiskas12

But the job was to find out what the problem was (why the cistern was overflowing) and then for him to order and fit the part.

We didn't need to know how to isolate the toilet, our neighbour had told us how to do that the day before, and we were happy to continue with isolating the whole house. It was only a tap downstairs and not a problem. 

All he did was take a look and tell us what was wrong and then got us to order the part. The idea was that he would return to fit it, there was no mention of it being two separate jobs. 

Whiskas12

I just found this, does it apply, as we were not told there was an original call out charge:

A call-out charge is a charge for coming out to you which is on top of the cost of any work or repairs.

So, for example, a plumber might charge you £100 for coming out to look at your faulty boiler and working out what the problem is. Then they might say it will cost you a further £300 if you want them to fix the problem.

It’s a legal requirement under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPRs) for the plumber to make it clear they are charging you for the visit and that this is separate from any work they may or may not do.

They should tell you this before they come out to you, and tell you how much the call-out charge will be. If they don’t tell you about a call out charge and then charge one, you may not have to pay this additional cost.

Bendy_House

It's a toughie, Whiskas, as - technically - the guy is probably right. He has T&Cs, and you agree to them when you call him in for a job.

Having said that, what a complete a***.

Are you DIY competent at all? Can you tell us what this part is? (Most likely the inlet valve/ballcock).

Your choice would appear to be -

1) swallow hard and allow this guy to complete the work and take another - most likely - £70 hit. £140+parts is probably pretty standard for such a 2-visit job these days, tho' I'd have liked to think that most plumbers would ease off a bit on the final bill.

2) call another plumber, explain exactly what needs doing and that you have the part - "how much for an hour's labour?" I wouldn't expect this to be much less, if any at all, but at least you wouldn't have to see/use grumpy again... Of course, you'd still owe the first guy the £70 - there's no getting out of that, I doubt. Or

3) DIY it/get a competent friend relative to fit it instead, but then you run the risk of 'who pays' if subsequent damage is caused.

His letter is a masterclass in a***olery, and deserves to be put on a review site in almost its entirety. If you do do this, however, make sure the review is honest; "Arrived and quickly isolated problem, showed us how to manually refill cistern, showed us part to order. Came back as arranged and replaced the part - all working fine. But..."

2bFrank

All he did was take a look and tell us what was wrong and then got us to order the part. The idea was that he would return to fit it, there was no mention of it being two separate jobs. 

That is a job though, coming in and finding out whats wrong, do you expect the plumber to come do that for free. even if they was there just 5 minutes, they will still put in a hour due to travel time etc.

Even if they invoiced you at the end of the job, they would still add this cost to the invoice, you are just paying the first part earlier.

Even if they didnt mention a callout charge, they will still invoice for a hours work. 

Whiskas12

The thing is he didn't provide us with his terms and conditions. He assumed we had them from a job he did for us in March 2021! My other half just managed to dig them out in his emails. 

What happens if he takes us to court?