ccj for parking fine

Coupon-mad

You must 'file and serve' (court and Claimant) all documents and submissions relied upon, in advance.

You cannot rock up and ambush them.

rms22

Coupon-mad said:

You must 'file and serve' (court and Claimant) all documents and submissions relied upon, in advance.

You cannot rock up and ambush them.

Ok I'll email them to CEL and print and take them - as it's next week I'll do that this week - do I just go along anytime and say I want to file and serve these documents to someone or do I need to make an appointment?  Sorry for lack of understanding this is all completely out of my comfort zone.

Coupon-mad

"File" means to the court.

Just take a lever-arch or ring-binder file with your whole bundle in it (fully page-numbered) including your Witness Statement & your address evidence and the skeleton and 4 case law transcripts (in full) and the relevant CoP page (not the whole BPA CoP).

Plus a 'costs schedule' page, listing your £275 fee (with receipt if you have it), your travel costs to court and your printing costs (approx) plus £95 for taking a day off work for the hearing, plus a wage slip or other proof of 'loss of a day's salary or leave' all included in the file too.

Obviously, so it doesn't go missing, write in black marker on the front of the file itself, the claim number and 'N244 set aside application - hearing on DATE/TIME - defendant/applicant's bundle including a skeleton argument to support striking the claim out entirely'.

'Serve' means to CEL.

Email their copy across 2 or more emails.  Make 'em work!

rms22

Coupon-mad said:

"File" means to the court.

Just take a lever-arch or ring-binder file with your whole bundle in it (fully page-numbered) including your Witness Statement & your address evidence and the skeleton and 4 case law transcripts (in full) and the relevant CoP page (not the whole BPA CoP).

Plus a 'costs schedule' page, listing your £275 fee (with receipt if you have it), your travel costs to court and your printing costs (approx) plus £95 for taking a day off work for the hearing, plus a wage slip or other proof of 'loss of a day's salary or leave' all included in the file too.

Obviously, so it doesn't go missing, write in black marker on the front of the file itself, the claim number and 'N244 set aside application - hearing on DATE/TIME - defendant/applicant's bundle including a skeleton argument to support striking the claim out entirely'.

'Serve' means to CEL.

Email their copy across 2 or more emails.  Make 'em work!

Thanks, I can do that. Although I am feeling a bit anxious about it and not knowing what to expect or if I'll be asked things which I don't know the answers to. I understand the points about them not checking for my actual address and the 4 months dead but is there anything else I need to know? 

If the CCJ is set aside next week is that the end of it or would there be another hearing for costs?

Regarding costs schedule and £95 for taking a day off work - I'm self employed so I can't provide wage slips.

rms22

Just to be clear, when you say that paragraph 5 should be taken out of the SA does that mean the following paragraph (and not literally the 5th paragraph of the text regardless of number)

5.  The Right Honourable Sir Oliver Heald on 23 December 2016 "announced a crackdown on unresolved debts which can damage people’s credit ratings without them knowing. The action comes after concerns were raised that companies were issuing claims to consumers using incorrect addresses." The Minister added "It cannot be right that people who are unaware of debts can see their lives and finances ruined by county court judgments. That in the digital age, we must ensure companies pursuing unpaid debts make every reasonable effort to contact individuals, rather than simply relying on a letter to an old address.”

Coupon-mad

Yes I think remove that.

If the CCJ is set aside you MUST ask for your costs on the day (do not be shy) on the basis that using an old address was CEL's fault and that conduct was unreasonable, breaches the CPRs and breaches the mandatory section in the BPA CoP about checking details before litigation.

They CANNOT rely only on old address data obtained from the DVLA months or years before, about where the car was kept.  Some Judges think they can. They cannot.

This is why you need to show that clause in the BPA CoP.  The CCJ was the fault of CEL not bothering to do a soft trace (costs from 28 pence for a bulk Equifax address check!).  Of course they should bear the cost of this application.

The other thing the Judge might ask is "what's your defence to this PCN?"

They'll ask that if they are not minded to strike the claim out entirely and don't agree that after 4 months without being properly served, any claim is a nullity.  Some do agree with that bit, some don't.

If the Judge sets aside the CCJ but doesn't strike the claim out, then you need to either know and be able to concisely summarise what your defence is likely to be based on (unclear signs?). OR say you have not seen any evidence whatsoever (no PCN, no idea?) so have no idea what the allegations even were, and as such you SHOULD be afforded the right to see detailed Particulars of Claim and evidence photos and be granted 14 days to defend.

rms22

Coupon-mad said:

Yes I think remove that.

If the CCJ is set aside you MUST ask for your costs on the day (do not be shy) on the basis that using an old address was CEL's fault and that conduct was unreasonable, breaches the CPRs and breaches the mandatory section in the BPA CoP about checking details before litigation.

They CANNOT rely only on old address data obtained from the DVLA months or years before, about where the car was kept.  Some Judges think they can. They cannot.

This is why you need to show that clause in the BPA CoP.  The CCJ was the fault of CEL not bothering to do a soft trace (costs from 28 pence for a bulk Equifax address check!).  Of course they should bear the cost of this application.

The other thing the Judge might ask is "what's your defence to this PCN?"

They'll ask that if they are not minded to strike the claim out entirely and don't agree that after 4 months without being properly served, any claim is a nullity.  Some do agree with that bit, some don't.

If the Judge sets aside the CCJ but doesn't strike the claim out, then you need to either know and be able to concisely summarise what your defence is likely to be based on (unclear signs?). OR say you have not seen any evidence whatsoever (no PCN, no idea?) so have no idea what the allegations even were, and as such you SHOULD be afforded the right to see detailed Particulars of Claim and evidence photos and be granted 14 days to defend.

Thanks very much. Is it ok to go to the hearing with notes to refer to highlighting the key points so I don't forget those points when I am there? 

The key points I'd write are along the lines of what you mentioned:

1. 'Claim not properly served - conduct unreasonable - breach of CPRs - Cannot rely on old address data - Failed to carry out soft trace (refer judge to BPA CoP clause)'

2. 4 Months Dead - Claim cannot be resurrected as 4 months have passed (refer judge to SA and 4 case transcripts)

Presumably the SA would have already been read before the hearing would it not?

Presumably it won't be a telephone hearing as it doesn't mention anything about that on the letter I received with the date of the hearing. I read through Jack's thread yesterday and I think his was a telephone hearing which was last year in the Summer which I was surprised at as I thought social distancing measures were finished with. 

RE the PCN ... all I know is what the CCBC said when I phoned asking them what the CCJ was for - they said it was for an unpaid parking ticket and mentioned the date and location. I checked on my Google maps - I was on Holiday at that time staying close to where that car park is but have seen no paperwork/photos etc.

Coupon-mad

If it is an in-person hearing, then aim to get there half an hour early to get through security and to grab some water/ a comfort break.

Take with you a crib sheet of short notes to help you avoid brain fog!  Annotate (in your crib sheet) the page, paragraph or exhibit number in your bundle that deals with these points, so you can say 'this is shown by exhibit x or paragraph x, on page x'.

And take printed copies of your WS and evidence (all your submissions) so you know which page number is being referred to as the hearing Judge looks at the issues.  You literally want to be on the same page and make it easy for all concerned.

Re the defence just say that you are completely unaware of any alleged breach and if the claim is not struck out for want of service (opening the door for a new claim to be sent to the right address to start the process properly) then you wish to see all the evidence and full details of the allegation so you can defend the case, once the CCJ is set aside under either CPR 13.2 or CPR 13.3.

rms22

All of the paperwork submitted thus far along with the N244 (WS, exhibits etc. are page numbered) so do I need to carry on with page numbering the Skelly and the 4 case authorities ? And on that point, do I need to page number every single sheet from all 4 of the transcripts? That'd be a lot of page numbering.

I'll email CEL hopefully tonight with the SA and 4 authorities, if not tomorrow. The hearing is next Tuesday, would it be ok to file on the Monday - and presumably I just walk in and ask someone who works there where to file it?

I've been reading through a few other set aside threads and it seems as though it's a bit of a lottery as to whether or not the 4 months dead argument is accepted, with some being set aside and struck out and others set aside but the claim not being struck out with a second hearing, the latter outcome being one which I read today and the second hearing wasn't until a year after.

There's a part of me wondering whether or not to ask for a consented set aside, pay all the fees and be done with it all as I really would not been keen on the prospect of having a second hearing lingering for a year or so even if the CCJ is set aside. The PCN would be paid and the CCJ setaside but I'd be out of pocket by £370.

It's either

1. Pay £370 (£275+95 for the PCN) and get it all out of the way and the CCJ set aside

2. Go to the hearing on Tuesday and hopefully get it set aside and the claim struck out

3. It's set aside but the claim isn't struck out - with a hearing which wouldn't take place until a year after.

B789

@rms22 Either way, you are going for set aside. Once set aside the original PCN will either be thrown out or re-served depending on the judgement. Again, either way, you will either defeat it at the next hearing or you'll have to pay the total amount claimed.

In a consented set aside, the PPC will probably expect you to cover all the costs and the amount of the PCN plus their add ons. So what if there is the prospect of another hearing in the future? You know the process now and you know that 99% of these PCNs, properly defended as advised on here win or are discontinued before the hearing. The 1% that lose either didn't follow all the advice or just gave in.

You've come this far yet you're prepared to just fold and shell out hard earned money to a bottom-dwelling PPC.

Do you want to be a 99 percenter or a 1 percenter?