Old electric cars?

mgfvvc

macman said:

Why? The average UK car journey is just 8.4 miles. So, as long as you can charge at home, a 20 mile range would cover most daily usage, assuming one return journey per day.

I don't trust the guessometer to be that accurate. My wife ran out of fuel once with 40 miles range still on the guessometer.

DrEskimo

Jaded2022 said:

macman said:

prowla said:

If I get into my petrol car and it says there's 20 miles left, I go straight to the petrol station to fill up.

I can't fathom anybody buying a car with up to 20 miles range.

Why? The average UK car journey is just 8.4 miles. So, as long as you can charge at home, a 20 mile range would cover most daily usage, assuming one return journey per day.

My question is do old electric cars bottom out in range about 10-30 miles and then slowly go lower or will there come a point where they don’t hold any charge?

No one knows, as EVs just aren't that old enough yet.

We do know that mileage (and therefore number of charge cycles), along with how fast the car is charged is a big factor on battery health though. There are plenty off EVs with 100,000 miles+ that have well over 50-60% capacity, which on older models with 20kWh batteries is still good for 40-50miles+.

So whether this is something you have to intrinsically have to worry about today is dependent on whether you are going to buy a old high mileage EV that only has 50-60% capacity (some of the very early Leafs/Souls), and that you will continue to do high mileage/rapid charging sessions.

Given that you only need 4miles I would suggest this isn't something you need to concern yourself overly with. 

ComicGeek

Herzlos said:

ComicGeek said:

macman said:

prowla said:

If I get into my petrol car and it says there's 20 miles left, I go straight to the petrol station to fill up.

I can't fathom anybody buying a car with up to 20 miles range.

Why? The average UK car journey is just 8.4 miles. So, as long as you can charge at home, a 20 mile range would cover most daily usage, assuming one return journey per day.

While your response is completely logically, people are not. I would never let my previous ICE get below 100miles in the tank before I filled up, range anxiety has been an issue for me long before I bought my current EV.

So with the ability to refuel at home every night, I think that paradigm changes drastically. Being able to start every morning with x range available means you only need to worry about that days usage or potentially even the first journey, since there's a good chance you'll be able to recharge somewhere near the other end.

Once you get used to low cost or zero cost charging at home, the thought of relying on a high cost charge at the other end (or having to rely on a charger actually working) is quite stressful for some people. I wouldn't want to be relying on using motorway service station charge points for journeys, very difficult to find available chargers.  

Occasionally an app update on the EV charger prevents it from charging for a night, or it needs resetting, or I forget to check range. It's much easier for me personally to have a long range EV which I know is always going to have 100+ miles range even if I forget/can't charge it one night. That also gives me flexibility on charging, so I don't have to charge every night and can wait for a sunny day to charge for free from my PV.

I would be very willing to pay a premium for a charge point if I could book a guaranteed time slot (business idea for anyone out there!), as planning our recent 700mile round trip holiday was stressful for me. In the end I didn't need to use any public charging points and used free charging at the hotel and cottage, but I still found it stressful planning emergency charge locations.

grumiofoundation

ComicGeek said:

Herzlos said:

ComicGeek said:

macman said:

prowla said:

If I get into my petrol car and it says there's 20 miles left, I go straight to the petrol station to fill up.

I can't fathom anybody buying a car with up to 20 miles range.

Why? The average UK car journey is just 8.4 miles. So, as long as you can charge at home, a 20 mile range would cover most daily usage, assuming one return journey per day.

While your response is completely logically, people are not. I would never let my previous ICE get below 100miles in the tank before I filled up, range anxiety has been an issue for me long before I bought my current EV.

So with the ability to refuel at home every night, I think that paradigm changes drastically. Being able to start every morning with x range available means you only need to worry about that days usage or potentially even the first journey, since there's a good chance you'll be able to recharge somewhere near the other end.

Once you get used to low cost or zero cost charging at home, the thought of relying on a high cost charge at the other end (or having to rely on a charger actually working) is quite stressful for some people. I wouldn't want to be relying on using motorway service station charge points for journeys, very difficult to find available chargers.  

Occasionally an app update on the EV charger prevents it from charging for a night, or it needs resetting, or I forget to check range. It's much easier for me personally to have a long range EV which I know is always going to have 100+ miles range even if I forget/can't charge it one night. That also gives me flexibility on charging, so I don't have to charge every night and can wait for a sunny day to charge for free from my PV.

I would be very willing to pay a premium for a charge point if I could book a guaranteed time slot (business idea for anyone out there!), as planning our recent 700mile round trip holiday was stressful for me. In the end I didn't need to use any public charging points and used free charging at the hotel and cottage, but I still found it stressful planning emergency charge locations.

Having an electric car with a low range, and therefore on the rare occasions we go a long way we visit a LOT of service stations to charge I would say in our experience it is not very difficult to find available/working chargers. The occasions when  all chargers are in use or out of service have been a small minority.

Zap map also very good for seeing if chargers are out of service.

Jaded2022

grumiofoundation said:

ComicGeek said:

Herzlos said:

ComicGeek said:

macman said:

prowla said:

If I get into my petrol car and it says there's 20 miles left, I go straight to the petrol station to fill up.

I can't fathom anybody buying a car with up to 20 miles range.

Why? The average UK car journey is just 8.4 miles. So, as long as you can charge at home, a 20 mile range would cover most daily usage, assuming one return journey per day.

While your response is completely logically, people are not. I would never let my previous ICE get below 100miles in the tank before I filled up, range anxiety has been an issue for me long before I bought my current EV.

So with the ability to refuel at home every night, I think that paradigm changes drastically. Being able to start every morning with x range available means you only need to worry about that days usage or potentially even the first journey, since there's a good chance you'll be able to recharge somewhere near the other end.

Once you get used to low cost or zero cost charging at home, the thought of relying on a high cost charge at the other end (or having to rely on a charger actually working) is quite stressful for some people. I wouldn't want to be relying on using motorway service station charge points for journeys, very difficult to find available chargers.  

Occasionally an app update on the EV charger prevents it from charging for a night, or it needs resetting, or I forget to check range. It's much easier for me personally to have a long range EV which I know is always going to have 100+ miles range even if I forget/can't charge it one night. That also gives me flexibility on charging, so I don't have to charge every night and can wait for a sunny day to charge for free from my PV.

I would be very willing to pay a premium for a charge point if I could book a guaranteed time slot (business idea for anyone out there!), as planning our recent 700mile round trip holiday was stressful for me. In the end I didn't need to use any public charging points and used free charging at the hotel and cottage, but I still found it stressful planning emergency charge locations.

Having an electric car with a low range, and therefore on the rare occasions we go a long way we visit a LOT of service stations to charge I would say in our experience it is not very difficult to find available/working chargers. The occasions when  all chargers are in use or out of service have been a small minority.

Zap map also very good for seeing if chargers are out of service.

Do you pay or always go for free ones?

ComicGeek

grumiofoundation said:

ComicGeek said:

Herzlos said:

ComicGeek said:

macman said:

prowla said:

If I get into my petrol car and it says there's 20 miles left, I go straight to the petrol station to fill up.

I can't fathom anybody buying a car with up to 20 miles range.

Why? The average UK car journey is just 8.4 miles. So, as long as you can charge at home, a 20 mile range would cover most daily usage, assuming one return journey per day.

While your response is completely logically, people are not. I would never let my previous ICE get below 100miles in the tank before I filled up, range anxiety has been an issue for me long before I bought my current EV.

So with the ability to refuel at home every night, I think that paradigm changes drastically. Being able to start every morning with x range available means you only need to worry about that days usage or potentially even the first journey, since there's a good chance you'll be able to recharge somewhere near the other end.

Once you get used to low cost or zero cost charging at home, the thought of relying on a high cost charge at the other end (or having to rely on a charger actually working) is quite stressful for some people. I wouldn't want to be relying on using motorway service station charge points for journeys, very difficult to find available chargers.  

Occasionally an app update on the EV charger prevents it from charging for a night, or it needs resetting, or I forget to check range. It's much easier for me personally to have a long range EV which I know is always going to have 100+ miles range even if I forget/can't charge it one night. That also gives me flexibility on charging, so I don't have to charge every night and can wait for a sunny day to charge for free from my PV.

I would be very willing to pay a premium for a charge point if I could book a guaranteed time slot (business idea for anyone out there!), as planning our recent 700mile round trip holiday was stressful for me. In the end I didn't need to use any public charging points and used free charging at the hotel and cottage, but I still found it stressful planning emergency charge locations.

Having an electric car with a low range, and therefore on the rare occasions we go a long way we visit a LOT of service stations to charge I would say in our experience it is not very difficult to find available/working chargers. The occasions when  all chargers are in use or out of service have been a small minority.

Zap map also very good for seeing if chargers are out of service.

I do a lot of driving around M25 and M4 - in 8 months of EV ownership and dozens of service station stops in that area I've never found a free charger. There are some areas with only 2/3 chargers to start with - doesn't help that they install them right next to the shops so become prime parking spots. The best charge stations I've found are too close to home to be of any use to me. Massive variations across the country.

Fortunately I haven't been desperate for a charge having a long range EV, but has meant planning other emergency stops off the motorway network - ie small petrol station (single charger!), ikea car park, hotel car park. Just couldn't imagine trying to do this with a short range EV.

ComicGeek

Jaded2022 said:

grumiofoundation said:

ComicGeek said:

Herzlos said:

ComicGeek said:

macman said:

prowla said:

If I get into my petrol car and it says there's 20 miles left, I go straight to the petrol station to fill up.

I can't fathom anybody buying a car with up to 20 miles range.

Why? The average UK car journey is just 8.4 miles. So, as long as you can charge at home, a 20 mile range would cover most daily usage, assuming one return journey per day.

While your response is completely logically, people are not. I would never let my previous ICE get below 100miles in the tank before I filled up, range anxiety has been an issue for me long before I bought my current EV.

So with the ability to refuel at home every night, I think that paradigm changes drastically. Being able to start every morning with x range available means you only need to worry about that days usage or potentially even the first journey, since there's a good chance you'll be able to recharge somewhere near the other end.

Once you get used to low cost or zero cost charging at home, the thought of relying on a high cost charge at the other end (or having to rely on a charger actually working) is quite stressful for some people. I wouldn't want to be relying on using motorway service station charge points for journeys, very difficult to find available chargers.  

Occasionally an app update on the EV charger prevents it from charging for a night, or it needs resetting, or I forget to check range. It's much easier for me personally to have a long range EV which I know is always going to have 100+ miles range even if I forget/can't charge it one night. That also gives me flexibility on charging, so I don't have to charge every night and can wait for a sunny day to charge for free from my PV.

I would be very willing to pay a premium for a charge point if I could book a guaranteed time slot (business idea for anyone out there!), as planning our recent 700mile round trip holiday was stressful for me. In the end I didn't need to use any public charging points and used free charging at the hotel and cottage, but I still found it stressful planning emergency charge locations.

Having an electric car with a low range, and therefore on the rare occasions we go a long way we visit a LOT of service stations to charge I would say in our experience it is not very difficult to find available/working chargers. The occasions when  all chargers are in use or out of service have been a small minority.

Zap map also very good for seeing if chargers are out of service.

Do you pay or always go for free ones?

Won't be free for service stations, generally only supermarkets offer free charging. 

GunJack

ComicGeek said:

Fortunately I haven't been desperate for a charge having a long range EV, but has meant planning other emergency stops off the motorway network 

..and I think this, for the likes of me and many many others, is part of the crux - I don't have time for such dalliences

ComicGeek

GunJack said:

ComicGeek said:

Fortunately I haven't been desperate for a charge having a long range EV, but has meant planning other emergency stops off the motorway network 

..and I think this, for the likes of me and many many others, is part of the crux - I don't have time for such dalliences

Our local town centre car park is currently installing charging points for at least 20% of parking spaces, with this being increased to all parking spaces eventually. 

Providing chargers at less than 1% of parking spaces at motorway facilities just isn't going to cut it.

Petriix

GunJack said:

ComicGeek said:

Fortunately I haven't been desperate for a charge having a long range EV, but has meant planning other emergency stops off the motorway network 

..and I think this, for the likes of me and many many others, is part of the crux - I don't have time for such dalliences

...yet you ignore the crucial point: you only need to charge on route if you're driving beyond your total range. In most current EVs that's vanishingly rare for most driving patterns. If you genuinely need to charge then you have enormous flexibility.