EV Discussion thread

Martyn1981

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82026077#Comment_82026077

Totally agree that a tax change is needed. You (and Nick, and my 'now BEV' friend), have shown what is possible. Yet the real world fuel data is horrendous. So, those that buy a PHEV because they want a PHEV (v's an ICEV) can make it work, but those that get one for other reasons, reveal just how poorly they perform compared to their official rating. Simply put, people who don't really want/need a PHEV, shouldn't be getting PHEV's. [Though that does then make me ponder, if they can then go on to provide a SH PHEV market to those that do want one, and intend to use it 'properly'?]

A new study on PHEV's in Europe has recently come out, and the discrepancy is horrific ~400%, v's ~19% for ICEV's against their fuel consumption ratings.

Press Release - Plug-in hybrids in Europe emit five times more than officially reported

Short report with link to full report - On the way to ‘real-world’ CO2 values? Evidence from 2021–2023 on-board fuel consumption monitoring data in the European passenger car market

JKenH

I don’t  understand why organisations like ICCT and T&E attack PHEVs as a technology when the technology isn’t the issue (as Nick has demonstrated). The problem is the tax (BIK) treatment which  encourages PHEV “ownership” rather than electric usage.

A different system of assumptions need to be made if the WLTP cannot be achieved. Real life consumptions figures for a builder’s pick up or van will never be anywhere near WLTP when the test doesn’t include the crew sitting in the cab with the engine running to keep warm. The test cycle is unrealistic. WLTP tests for ICE cars have improved but are still about 20% out of and range/consumption figures for BEVs also fall a long way short of WLTP ranges.

From the ICCT:

Policymakers could consider collecting real-world energy consumption data from BEVs using on-board fuel and energy consumption monitoring devices. The simulated real-world energy consumption in this study is 29% to 44% higher than the type-approval value. For verifying the representativeness of BEV type-approval values, collecting reliable real-world energy consumption is essential. It is also a prerequisite for providing consumers with comprehensive information, determining life-cycle emissions, and assessing the impact of electric vehicle energy consumption limits. These analyses could be performed by the European Commission as defined in the CO2 standards for cars and vans.

The bigger the better? How battery size affects real-world energy consumption, cost of ownership, and life- cycle emissions of electric vehicles - International Council on Clean Transportation

Reed_Richards

I had to replace the tyres on my Mokka-E after 24,000 miles. Before that I had a Yaris Hybrid and those tyres lasted about twice as long. The cost of a new set of tyres for my Mokka-E was roughly the same as I had paid for the electricity to drive the 24,000 miles.