EV Discussion thread

Exiled_Tyke

silvercar said:

Netexporter said:

Teslas are just dull, IMO (with the exception of the Cybertruck which is both ugly and too dangerous to be allowed on the roads of civilised countries). Same old shape, no significant change since launch, interiors more like an arcade game than a limousine.

Can't knock the charging infrastructure & system, though.

 I find driving long distances in the Tesla less tiring than in previous cars. I would put most of that down to the automated cruise control. 

I’m not that bothered that it looks ‘dull’

I find driving long distances in my present car far less tiring than my previous cars. The smoothness of an EV, the many features designed to make the drivers job easier which of course include the adaptive cruise control. That said I can't imagine ever wanting to own a Tesla.  

Spies

silvercar said:

Spies said:

Tesla is off limits to me because of Elon these days

I’m curious as to whether you research owners of other car companies, or whether you dislike what you’ve heard of Elon and that’s enough to put you off the brand?

This keeps coming up, other car company ceos aren't outspoken hard right cretins who try to incite violence and unrest are they? 

Although Tesla employees don't have that same viewpoint, I can't stomach any of my money trickling down to his egotistical fantasy of running (ruining?) america

Magnitio

QrizB said:

Magnitio said:

JKenH said:

Well, no one else is going to mention it, so I will. 

Tesla Yearly Sales Fall For The First Time Over A Decade

The electric vehicle maker delivered 1.79 million cars in 2024, down from 1.81 million in 2023

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-yearly-sales-fall-for-the-first-time-over-a-decad-1851731179

Wow. What a disaster. A 1% drop in sales.

Tesla's share price (market cap) makes no sense unless you think it's going to grow tenfold in a relatively short time. Per a Forbes article:

"Between 2014 and 2023, Tesla’s annual EV shipments increased at 56.7% average annual rate"

But now it isn't, which might be a problem for Tesla's backers.

Forbes article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2025/01/03/tesla-stock-price-too-high-why-sales-fell-may-miss-20-growth-target/

I agree that their share price is not really a reflection of where they are at as a company. There's no way that they could continue their growth rate with the intense competition that they are facing mainly from Chinese companies. However, with the new model 3 and the soon to be release model Y, they have a good offering that should continue to sell well until a cheaper model is introduced in the next year or two. Whilst the Cybertruck contains some excellent technology, it is too divisive to sell in large numbers and is unlikely to be exported to many markets. Too much of the company's development budget went into a relatively niche model and there is now significant competition in the US EV pick-up truck market. Some of the tech that has been developed e.g. steer-by-wire, will be re-used in new models. Given all the negative press surrounding Tesla and Musk, the general slowing-down of car sales and the competition from China, a 1% drop in car sales doesn't seem too bad. Sales of the 3/Y actually increased and it was the S/X that dropped.

JKenH

Magnitio said:

QrizB said:

Magnitio said:

JKenH said:

Well, no one else is going to mention it, so I will. 

Tesla Yearly Sales Fall For The First Time Over A Decade

The electric vehicle maker delivered 1.79 million cars in 2024, down from 1.81 million in 2023

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-yearly-sales-fall-for-the-first-time-over-a-decad-1851731179

Wow. What a disaster. A 1% drop in sales.

Tesla's share price (market cap) makes no sense unless you think it's going to grow tenfold in a relatively short time. Per a Forbes article:

"Between 2014 and 2023, Tesla’s annual EV shipments increased at 56.7% average annual rate"

But now it isn't, which might be a problem for Tesla's backers.

Forbes article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2025/01/03/tesla-stock-price-too-high-why-sales-fell-may-miss-20-growth-target/

I agree that their share price is not really a reflection of where they are at as a company. There's no way that they could continue their growth rate with the intense competition that they are facing mainly from Chinese companies. However, with the new model 3 and the soon to be release model Y, they have a good offering that should continue to sell well until a cheaper model is introduced in the next year or two. Whilst the Cybertruck contains some excellent technology, it is too divisive to sell in large numbers and is unlikely to be exported to many markets. Too much of the company's development budget went into a relatively niche model and there is now significant competition in the US EV pick-up truck market. Some of the tech that has been developed e.g. steer-by-wire, will be re-used in new models. Given all the negative press surrounding Tesla and Musk, the general slowing-down of car sales and the competition from China, a 1% drop in car sales doesn't seem too bad. Sales of the 3/Y actually increased and it was the S/X that dropped.

“Sales of the 3/Y actually increased”

Do you have a source for that? Troy Teslike, widely regarded as one of the most respected sources of Tesla statistics suggests that while Model 3 sales increased by around 7k, Model Y sales fell by about 43k. 

Grumpy_chap

QrizB said:

In my uninformed opinion, Tesla simply aren't offering cars that the mass market wants. Performance saloons are a niche and Tesla have saturated their part of it. They don't have a Corsa or a Puma in their lineup, for example, so they're not going to break into that segment.

Bring run by a politically polarising individual can't help, either. No-one knows or cares what eg. Oliver Blume or Jim Farley think about the world beyond motor cars.

Netexporter said:

Teslas are just dull, IMO (with the exception of the Cybertruck which is both ugly and too dangerous to be allowed on the roads of civilised countries). Same old shape, no significant change since launch, interiors more like an arcade game than a limousine.

Can't knock the charging infrastructure & system, though.

I agree that Tesla have a limited model range, however in other manufacturers, executive saloons which have the same old shape slowly evolving over time is "premium, aspirational" yet here that is described as "niche" and "dull".  

As for mass market, is that the cars people want or the cars people need / can afford?  Is the mass market - chasing sales volume - where profit lies in the long term sustainable way?  I note that legacy auto manufacturers seem unable to raise the finance to develop a range of EV models.

I also wonder whether the many varied models put put by some manufacturers is logical in chasing every niche market - the same car basically adapted to offer hatchback, saloon, estate, MPV, SUV, convertible, coupe, pick-up variants.  The Tesla approach of building all the cars the same, or as near as, is a proven production line approach that has delivered profitability for many over the years.  Was it Henry Ford who said "you can have any colour you like, so long as it's black?"

silvercar

I wish Tesla made a smaller car. We currently have a Tesla Model 3 and a Nissan Leaf. The Nissan Leaf is really boring to drive. Just debating our next cars and would like to keep the Tesla and get a smaller version. We would be tempted to get a second Tesla 3 or a Y, but can't really justify running 2 big cars. As an example of how we favour the Tesla, with our previous cars the driving was split 6k - 10k. Now the split is 14k - 2k. 

JKenH

I am disappointed to see Tesla sales falling as I think (on paper - I haven’t driven one) they still have the best EV offering. Particularly disappointed that it is the Chinese stealing their world market share. 

Musk may be a turn off to some but inspirational to others and while Tesla may be losing customers in US cities because of his politics, it may make the Tesla brand more popular in other markets. Refusing to buy a particular brand on principle because of a single person’s political views despite that brand being the best offering on the market is irrational. 

I won’t buy a Chinese EV because I am not convinced they are better than the established brands. Cheaper, yes but a better buy? Not in my opinion. I can think of numerous ideological reasons not to buy Chinese products but, when they make a product better and cheaper than the West can, I buy it. I am into hifi and love British brands but when the Chinese come along and produce fantastic cheap DACs I am not going to shy away from something I want on principle. On the other hand buying an inferior Chinese produced EV instead of a Tesla on ideological grounds just doesn’t make any sense. If someone feels self conscious being seen driving a Tesla then buy a bumper sticker. 

I think Tesla’s fundamental problem in maintaining market share (as others have pointed out) is the lack of model range. Early adopters keen to get into an EV were prepared to compromise on body styles to get a car with decent range but now there is a greater range of alternative options and people (possibly who haven’t done the research) will put body style ahead of efficiency and charging infrastructure. Look at all the no hoper ICE cars there have been in recent years that have still sold in their hundreds if not thousands - most probably to people who haven’t really a clue and the same is happening with EVs. Why would anybody buy a Mazda MX30 - but somebody did (I think)?

Magnitio

JKenH said:

Magnitio said:

QrizB said:

Magnitio said:

JKenH said:

Well, no one else is going to mention it, so I will. 

Tesla Yearly Sales Fall For The First Time Over A Decade

The electric vehicle maker delivered 1.79 million cars in 2024, down from 1.81 million in 2023

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-yearly-sales-fall-for-the-first-time-over-a-decad-1851731179

Wow. What a disaster. A 1% drop in sales.

Tesla's share price (market cap) makes no sense unless you think it's going to grow tenfold in a relatively short time. Per a Forbes article:

"Between 2014 and 2023, Tesla’s annual EV shipments increased at 56.7% average annual rate"

But now it isn't, which might be a problem for Tesla's backers.

Forbes article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2025/01/03/tesla-stock-price-too-high-why-sales-fell-may-miss-20-growth-target/

I agree that their share price is not really a reflection of where they are at as a company. There's no way that they could continue their growth rate with the intense competition that they are facing mainly from Chinese companies. However, with the new model 3 and the soon to be release model Y, they have a good offering that should continue to sell well until a cheaper model is introduced in the next year or two. Whilst the Cybertruck contains some excellent technology, it is too divisive to sell in large numbers and is unlikely to be exported to many markets. Too much of the company's development budget went into a relatively niche model and there is now significant competition in the US EV pick-up truck market. Some of the tech that has been developed e.g. steer-by-wire, will be re-used in new models. Given all the negative press surrounding Tesla and Musk, the general slowing-down of car sales and the competition from China, a 1% drop in car sales doesn't seem too bad. Sales of the 3/Y actually increased and it was the S/X that dropped.

“Sales of the 3/Y actually increased”

Do you have a source for that? Troy Teslike, widely regarded as one of the most respected sources of Tesla statistics suggests that while Model 3 sales increased by around 7k, Model Y sales fell by about 43k. 

I should probably have made myself clearer. Sales of 3/Y have been increasing each quarter throughout 2024 (Q1 being low due to switch of production lines to new model). Sales of S/X have been decreasing.

michaels

silvercar said:

I wish Tesla made a smaller car. We currently have a Tesla Model 3 and a Nissan Leaf. The Nissan Leaf is really boring to drive. Just debating our next cars and would like to keep the Tesla and get a smaller version. We would be tempted to get a second Tesla 3 or a Y, but can't really justify running 2 big cars. As an example of how we favour the Tesla, with our previous cars the driving was split 6k - 10k. Now the split is 14k - 2k. 

That's interesting, we only drive a leaf (well 3 actually) and test drove a Y and found it basically 'dull', nothing wrong with it but just a bit bland (and the back was pretty horrible because the seats are low and the front seats are huge so no forward visibility)

JKenH

Comparison of EV brand performance 2023 (left) vs 2024 (right). EV sales up 15.7% Y-o-Y.