EV Discussion thread

michaels

Grumpy_chap said:

MeteredOut said:

Spies said:

Extra! extra! all EVs now worthless disposable items because of one guys poor decision which has left him with negative equity 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77Yo4LpksWM

I really don’t understand why people would click on such obvious clickbait.

I had to stop watching as soon as I realised it was 25 minute long video.
One assumes this individual who can afford a Porsche EV has a reasonable level employment demands and surprised they have the time to make long videos no-one has the time to watch.
Is there a 10-second summary?

Yes - A 3 year old, previous generation, luxury car is getting trade in quotes of about 35% of its cost when new.

Martyn1981

Speaking of Porsche BEV's. Chatting last week with a guy who got a new Taycan last summer (to replace a Taycan). He supplies me with wood pellets (for the local cat rescue as litter). We always chat about BEV's and cars in general. He's owned an incredible mix, including TVR's (too scary for me).

He's hoping to get his new Taycan back soon, as it's been in the shop since November when it crashed. He and wife were heading home late evening after a meal out. Confused lady in front stopped dead on a roundabout for no reason (not a scam). He was doing about 25mph, not a problem, no emergency, but as he pressed the brake, nothing happened, nothing at all.

Crashed still doing about 25, all airbags went off, he and wife (and the other lady) were OK, but £47k of damage to the Taycan.

Porsche have told him that the carbon ceramic brakes won't work as well, when cold and damp, but he said they did nothing, zilch.

He was hoping for a write-off, as he doesn't have confidence in the car now. But told me about the high depreciation, but has gap insurance. I think he said that the new face-lifted model is now out, but dealers (UK?) still have about 700 of the 2023 model still to sell.

1961Nick

Martyn1981 said:

Speaking of Porsche BEV's. Chatting last week with a guy who got a new Taycan last summer (to replace a Taycan). He supplies me with wood pellets (for the local cat rescue as litter). We always chat about BEV's and cars in general. He's owned an incredible mix, including TVR's (too scary for me).

He's hoping to get his new Taycan back soon, as it's been in the shop since November when it crashed. He and wife were heading home late evening after a meal out. Confused lady in front stopped dead on a roundabout for no reason (not a scam). He was doing about 25mph, not a problem, no emergency, but as he pressed the brake, nothing happened, nothing at all.

Crashed still doing about 25, all airbags went off, he and wife (and the other lady) were OK, but £47k of damage to the Taycan.

Porsche have told him that the carbon ceramic brakes won't work as well, when cold and damp, but he said they did nothing, zilch.

He was hoping for a write-off, as he doesn't have confidence in the car now. But told me about the high depreciation, but has gap insurance. I think he said that the new face-lifted model is now out, but dealers (UK?) still have about 700 of the 2023 model still to sell.

Carbon Ceramic brakes are a waste of money unless your pastime is trackdays or lapping the Nordschleife in a particularly heavy car. I driven with them fitted to an XKRS-GT on a track & they're incredible. I've also driven an
F-Type R on the road with them in the wet & I concur with what Porsche said about this Taycan.

Grumpy_chap

michaels said:

Yes - A 3 year old, previous generation, luxury car is getting trade in quotes of about 35% of its cost when new.

Thanks.
Isn't that the kind of depreciation such cars have always experienced - electric or otherwise?

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

michaels said:

Yes - A 3 year old, previous generation, luxury car is getting trade in quotes of about 35% of its cost when new.

Thanks.
Isn't that the kind of depreciation such cars have always experienced - electric or otherwise?

I’m coming into this without having watched the video so I apologise if this comment isn’t relevant or I have picked the wrong Taycan for this comparison.. While 65% depreciation for a car after 3 years is not unusual, it is for a Porsche. A petrol 3 year old Porsche is still selling for around the same as it cost new. In March 2021 a 93kWh Taycan cost £116k. A petrol Carrera 4 cost £88k. The cheapest Taycan 93kWh on Autotrader is £48k. The cheapest 2021 Carrera 4 Autotrader is £88k. 

JKenH

There is a press release currently going around which says among cars up to 10 years old EVs are 59% less prone to breakdown. I just wanted to add some context. At the end of 2019 there were less than 100,000 EVs on the road while now there are around 1 million so 90% of EVs are 4 years old or less. The comparative figure for ICE cars is 20-25%. (The 4 peak years for car sales in the UK were 2014 to 2017 with sales exceeding 3.1 million in 2016 but by 2023 ICE car registrations had fallen to 1.6m. Roughly 75-80% of the 22 million or so ICE cars up to 10 years old are over 4 years old.)

EVs are 59% less likely to break down, says Start Rescue

“Our figures show electric cars ranging from new to 10-years old are 59% less prone to breakdowns than ICE cars,” says Lee Puffett, Managing Director of Start Rescue. “This might surprise some motorists, but with more than a million EVs now on the UK’s roads it shows drivers can choose an EV confident that they are less likely to be stranded at the roadside.”

https://www.motorfinanceonline.com/news/evs-are-59-less-likely-to-break-down-says-start-rescue/

JKenH

Just an interesting statistic. On Autotrader there are 568 Tesla for sale, 2021 to 2023 and 554 Porsche Taycan. Across 2021, 2022 and 2023 Tesla sold 138,002 cars while over the same period Porsche sold 15,589 Taycans. One in every 28 Taycans on the road are currently being advertised while for Tesla the figure is one in 243. (If you include the number of Teslas for sale through Tesla and other channels then the number increases to 714 or 1 in 193)

What does this tell us? People don’t like their Taycans, or they are selling very slowly despite the low (relatively) low prices, or maybe something else…?

1961Nick

JKenH said:

Just an interesting statistic. On Autotrader there are 568 Tesla for sale, 2021 to 2023 and 554 Porsche Taycan. Across 2021, 2022 and 2023 Tesla sold 138,002 cars while over the same period Porsche sold 15,589 Taycans. One in every 28 Taycans on the road are currently being advertised while for Tesla the figure is one in 243. (If you include the number of Teslas for sale through Tesla and other channels then the number increases to 714 or 1 in 193)

What does this tell us? People don’t like their Taycans, or they are selling very slowly despite the low (relatively) low prices, or maybe something else…?

It's probably something simple like every MD or CEO took a company Taycan on a 36 month contract hire deal & they're all hitting the used market at the same time.

Tesla have a 4 year warranty whereas I think Porsche are 3 years & that could also be a factor.

JKenH

Ignore the headline. I have just picked out a few snippets from this article. 

The most interesting to me is the reduction in driver satisfaction with the experience of charging falling from 8.1/10 to 7.4/10. This is despite the roll out of many more charging locations. I suspect that the reason behind this fall is the longer you own an EV/the more often you public charge, the more likely you are going to have a bad public charging experience. It’s not a problem until it becomes a problem, i.e. you don’t perceive there to be a problem until you experience it for yourself. 

If 90% of the charging network is working satisfactorily and you only public charge once a year then the chances of having a satisfactory charging experience is 90%. After a couple of years it is 81% and after 3 years 73%. (Curiously close to the fall off in satisfaction recorded.) Some people may charge 10 times and the likelihood is that 65% will have a bad experience - the other 35% may never encounter an unsatisfactory charger. 

A lot also depends on your attitude to electric cars. If they are something you are excited about you will have a higher tolerance level before a bad charging experience makes you dissatisfied with the experience of charging.  The newer your bit of new tech is, the more you put up with its foibles. Once you have lived with something for a while then the more irritating its shortcomings can become. I was very happy with EV ownership in the first year - doing a long trip and using a public charger was an adventure - my EV was my hobby, but once a hobby becomes the day job the shine wears off. 

Expect charging satisfaction levels to continue to fall - it’s just statistically inevitable. 

Britain's electric car driveway divide: 30% of owners don't have cheaper home charging

Almost seven in ten (69 per cent) existing electric vehicle (EV) owners polled said they mostly charge their cars at home - which is the cheapest solutions. 

The research also found that, in the 12 months since it published its first EVX (EVXperience) Report last year, EV drivers have become less satisfied with the range of their cars (7.7/10 down to 6.7/10), and the experience of charging, reducing from 8.1/10 to 7.4/10. 

Of nearly 40,000 new electric cars registered in January and February, just 6,500 were purchased by individuals. The remainder were snapped up by fleet leasing companies as a result of lucrative taxation benefits, including the salary sacrifice scheme.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-13187725/Over-half-EV-drivers-rely-solely-public-charging-network-Government-refuses-slash-public-charging-VAT.html

JKenH

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

Just an interesting statistic. On Autotrader there are 568 Tesla for sale, 2021 to 2023 and 554 Porsche Taycan. Across 2021, 2022 and 2023 Tesla sold 138,002 cars while over the same period Porsche sold 15,589 Taycans. One in every 28 Taycans on the road are currently being advertised while for Tesla the figure is one in 243. (If you include the number of Teslas for sale through Tesla and other channels then the number increases to 714 or 1 in 193)

What does this tell us? People don’t like their Taycans, or they are selling very slowly despite the low (relatively) low prices, or maybe something else…?

It's probably something simple like every MD or CEO took a company Taycan on a 36 month contract hire deal & they're all hitting the used market at the same time.

Tesla have a 4 year warranty whereas I think Porsche are 3 years & that could also be a factor.

The Taycans listed on Autotrader by year.

2021 96
2022 112
2023 346

Tesla by year

2021 249
2022 251
2023  73