EV Discussion thread

EricMears

QrizB said:

paul991 said:

At least being in UK this wont be a problem any thing like minus 20 everything will be shut and  we will be told to stay at  home  

It was -10C here this morning.

UK winter diesel is only specced down to -15C, so if we did get a -20C cold spell most of those vans and heavy vehicles would be off the road.

(Wonder if eg. the ambulance service have plans for this? )

Emergency service vehicles parked overnight tend to use an engine heater like the Kenlowe device I mentioned earlier.

Of course that wouldn't be a lot of use for an ambulance parked away from its station overnight.

JKenH

Autocar have published a guide for those thinking of buying an electric car. Leaving aside the comment that Hyundai/Kia use type 1 and Chademo connectors, is this a useful guide or just a plug for EVs? Given that Autocar is generally regarded as a respected motoring journal a friend or relative may decide to buy an EV on the strength of this. What else (if anything)  would you feel you should tell them? 

Should I buy an electric car?

Thinking of plunging into EV ownership for your next car? Our complete guide helps you make the right decision

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/advice-electric-cars/should-i-buy-electric-car

Grumpy_chap

That article did not seem to reference insurance or servicing costs.

MikeJXE

JKenH said:

Autocar have published a guide for those thinking of buying an electric car. Leaving aside the comment that Hyundai/Kia use type 1 and Chademo connectors, is this a useful guide or just a plug for EVs? Given that Autocar is generally regarded as a respected motoring journal a friend or relative may decide to buy an EV on the strength of this. What else (if anything)  would you feel you should tell them? 

Should I buy an electric car?

Thinking of plunging into EV ownership for your next car? Our complete guide helps you make the right decision

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/advice-electric-cars/should-i-buy-electric-car

I would tell them do the maths and more so if they don't have home charging like myself

The article states cost per mile with remote charging can cost approx 14p per mile 

My luxury 2016 Jaguar XE cost 14p a mile so that doesn't encourage me

They state EV is more reliable, how is that going to pan out in 40 years time ? We have history of one but not the other 

My car battery cost me £200 last year, what would an EV battery cost ? 

I won't go on because it doesn't matter what I think and it will get shot down anyway as this thread is to promote an EV and not ICE 

Grumpy_chap

MikeJXE said:

They state EV is more reliable, how is that going to pan out in 40 years time ? We have history of one but not the other 

My car battery cost me £200 last year, what would an EV battery cost ? 
 
I won't go on because it doesn't matter what I think and it will get shot down anyway as this thread is to promote an EV and not ICE 

What percentage of ICE cars sold are still running after 40 years?

The comparison to the 12V battery in an ICE and the EV battery is entirely false and I believe you know that.

This thread is to be an open and honest discussion, not just pro-EV comments.  So far as I understand.

QrizB

Grumpy_chap said:

MikeJXE said:

They state EV is more reliable, how is that going to pan out in 40 years time ?

What percentage of ICE cars sold are still running after 40 years?

In 2021, according to SMMT (and reported by RAC) the average age of the cars on the UK road was 8.4 years - which was "highest since records began in 2000".

If the half-life of a new car is 9 years, by 40 years old there will be only 4.5% of them left.

(This might be an extrapolation too far.)

Grumpy_chap said:

The comparison to the 12V battery in an ICE and the EV battery is entirely false and I believe you know that.

My understanding is that most EVs also have a 12V battery for the ancillary systems. I'd expect that battery to be somewhat cheaper than the 12V battery in an ICE since it doesn't have to perform starting duties.

JKenH

I’ve got a 64year old car in my garage - a Chinese brand as well! 😉

Edit: it’s usually the value of a car that dictates how long it remains on the road. Virtually any Ford that has made it to 40 years old will probably be around for a while longer yet. Ditto Mini. I suspect that they will be around long after many of today’s cars are gone. Older cars were simpler to fix. Modern ones have so many electronics that once the microchips are out of production/stock any failure of one will mean the cars will be written off. Mechanically most can be kept on the road indefinitely. 

I have honestly lost count of the 25-30 year old MX5s I have owned in the last 10 years. I once had 4 in my garage. Sadly quite a few of them have been smashed up since. Several had 250,000km on the clock and could be hammered round a track for hours on end without missing a beat.

MikeJXE

Grumpy_chap said:

MikeJXE said:

They state EV is more reliable, how is that going to pan out in 40 years time ? We have history of one but not the other 

My car battery cost me £200 last year, what would an EV battery cost ? 
 
I won't go on because it doesn't matter what I think and it will get shot down anyway as this thread is to promote an EV and not ICE 

What percentage of ICE cars sold are still running after 40 years?

The comparison to the 12V battery in an ICE and the EV battery is entirely false and I believe you know that.

This thread is to be an open and honest discussion, not just pro-EV comments.  So far as I understand.

In answer to your questions

1 ICE some and EV none, but that part was for me to point to ICE are still here after 40 years will EV be ? 

2 My Battery starts my engine and it will run without it, an EV is a battery on wheels and will cost many time the cost of my engine

 3 If it is an open and honest discussion you might have commented on cost per mile comparison, but as usual any comments on this thread that might make ICE look good are not forthcoming 

QrizB

MikeJXE said:

 3 If it is an open and honest discussion you might have commented on cost per mile comparison, but as usual any comments on this thread that might make ICE look good are not forthcoming

OK, I'll take that.

MikeJXE said:

The article states cost per mile with remote charging can cost approx 14p per mile 
My luxury 2016 Jaguar XE cost 14p a mile so that doesn't encourage me

I don't know anything about your Jaguar XE.

However per Fuelly, the average 2016 Jaguar XE gets 10.2 miles per litre.

To compare like with like, I'll look at "cost per mile with remote fuelling" - buying petrol at motorway services. Per the RAC app, the current price of petrol at Membury services on the M4 is 166.9p/litre. That's 16.4p per mile for a car doing 10.2 miles per litre, a little more than the 14p/mile EV cost you've quoted from the article.

If you'd prefer to look at "home fuelling", the price of petrol at my local supermarket is 136.9p/litre. That's 13.4p/mile. But the cost of plugging in an EV at my house, assuming it gets 3 miles per kWh, is 3p/mile. Since most of my days begin and end at home, and since I rarely travel further than 100 miles during a day, I could do almost all my EV charging at home for 3p/mile rather than out and about at 14p/mile.

I'll also point out that the article itself makes exactly this point, but that you've neglected to quote it.

Depending on where you go, it can be cheaper to charge your car than fill it with petrol or diesel.

You can expect to pay 19-21p per mile for petrol or diesel (based on a regular family car), but charging at home overnight (the cheapest option) can cost as little as 3p per mile, meaning a full charge costs around £17 based on a car with a 40kWh battery, such as the Nissan Leaf.

If you plug in to a standard public charger, that rises to 14p per mile, or £26 for a fill-up, and a rapid charger is normally 18p per mile, or around £33 per full charge.

Grumpy_chap

MikeJXE said:

In answer to your questions

1 ICE some and EV none, but that part was for me to point to ICE are still here after 40 years will EV be ? 

2 My Battery starts my engine and it will run without it, an EV is a battery on wheels and will cost many time the cost of my engine

 3 If it is an open and honest discussion you might have commented on cost per mile comparison, but as usual any comments on this thread that might make ICE look good are not forthcoming 

I assume that a small percentage of current new EV's will still be in service in 40 years.

The conflation of the ICE 12V battery and the EV battery is an inappropriate comparison.  As Qriz has mentioned the EV also has a 12V battery.  The EV battery has to be compared to the cost of an engine.  I do not have the costs of an EV battery - do you?  A recent thread has referenced a £9k repair cost for an ICE:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6500473/appalling-customer-service-from-ford-uk#latest

I did not comment on the cost per mile comparison as I think you were saying (please correct me if I am wrong) that the energy cost for public charging an EV is about the same as the energy cost for an ICE.  I think that is about right.

That this thread is for good and bad is outlined in the first post:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6367380/ev-discussion-thread/p1