EV Discussion thread

noitsnotme

gefnew said:

Could this happen to you.
'I was kidnapped by my runaway electric car' - BBC News
Maybe?

Is this poor reporting or a mechanic not familiar with EVs?  Or does the MG have an on/off switch?!

"He said he had never seen anything like it and decided he was not willing to turn the engine on to see what was wrong."

Netexporter

Definitely operator error, IMO, plus poor reporting.

JKenH

Netexporter said:

Definitely operator error, IMO, plus poor reporting.

Poor reporting (with the terminology) but what leads you to conclude it was definitely operator error? 

Netexporter

JKenH said:

Netexporter said:

Definitely operator error, IMO, plus poor reporting.

Poor reporting (with the terminology) but what leads you to conclude it was definitely operator error? 

Well for a start there's the pilots' maxim; aviate, navigate, communicate. In an emergency situation, those are your priorities, in that order, otherwise you are liable to information overload, which is detrimental to performance. The driver seems to have managed to make numerous phone calls.

I find it hard to believe the brakes weren't functional. They are just standard hydraulic brakes, the same as you'd find in any car. They have dual circuits, so multiple failure is unlikely. Even if the braking assistance was disabled you can still stop the vehicle if you press the pedal hard enough. I suppose most drivers, these days, haven't any experience of actually having to supply all the muscle to stop.

Grumpy_chap

gefnew said:

Could this happen to you.
'I was kidnapped by my runaway electric car' - BBC News
Maybe?

I'm not convinced that is really an EV story.
It was either brake failure or a software failure.  Seemingly, the cruise control got stuck "on" but the brakes also then failed?
The everyone went into panic mode, including the Police who decided the only thing to do was to get him to crash into a Police van.
Would a stinger not have been a lower damage solution?

Netexporter

If he's put his foot on the brake pedal and pressed the stop button, I'm pretty certain there wouldn't have been a story.

Grumpy_chap

Netexporter said:

If he's put his foot on the brake pedal and pressed the stop button, I'm pretty certain there wouldn't have been a story.

It seems like he did try to use the brakes, as the article reads:

"I realised something was wrong when I was coming up to a roundabout and went to slow down but it didn't do it," he said.

"Then I heard a loud grinding noise that sounded like brake pads, but because it was such a new car I knew it couldn't be a problem with them.

It was his brand new car.
Brake pads can make a grinding noise if the car has been sat for a little while with any dampness in the air - this is any car.
It sort of seems as though the driver pressed the brake pads, heard the little grinding so eased off the brakes and crashed into a Police van to avoid the grinding noise causing whatever damage.
If that was me, I'd have simply kept pressing the brakes as hard as possible...

All very odd and seems like the reporting has not endeavoured any kind of fact check.

JKenH

There have been numerous reports of sudden unintended acceleration most involving ICE vehicles. This one, however, involves an EV, so that makes it newsworthy. 

Things can go wrong with electronically controlled equipment. Reading the full article, it is apparent that the driver did try to brake and did press the stop button, numerous warning lights did anppear and vehicle error reports were recorded. Based on the report there is something to look into. There is a possibility or even a probability it may have been driver error but to say “definitely operator error” is more wishful thinking than an appraisal of the evidence presented in the linked BBC report. 

I think there is a tendency within the EV community to become defensive and immediately dismiss such stories as driver error when in fact there is no evidence to support that point of view - only an opinion based on personal experience and because we do want the story to be true because we fear it will reflect badly on all EVs.

Go on the MG forums and you will see unresponsive brake pedals on the ZSEV do occur, just as they  can occur on ICE cars. They may affect only a very, very, small number of vehicles but each report needs to be taken seriously by the manufacturer. 

There’s rarely smoke without fire. 

Netexporter

It seems like he did try to use the brakes, as the article reads:

Not my point. Even in the vanishingly unlikely event of the hydraulic brakes failing, if he's pressed the brake pedal that would have operated the interlock switch that would allow him to put the drive in neutral and/or operate the stop button, which would have disconnected the traction battery.

As for the cops telling him to chuck the key fob out the window...

Is there a town called Keystone in Scotland?

Petriix

It's entirely possible that something went sufficiently wrong with the electronics that cruise control was stuck 'on' and the brake pedal didn't disengage it. However, there are various actions which the driver should have taken but didn't including turning the selector to neutral (he apparently tried to press 'p' but that obviously doesn't do anything at speed), pulling up on the parking brake lever to engage the emergency brakes, or simply braking very hard.

I strongly suspect that this was some kind of staged stunt but, even if not, there is significant user error involved.