EV Discussion thread

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Are there any contributors to this thread with experience of any EV other than Tesla, Leaf, MG?

We've got a 2018 IONIQ with a 28kWh battery.

silvercar

Grumpy_chap said:

Are there any contributors to this thread with experience of any EV other than Tesla, Leaf, MG?

Friends have a VW ID3 and a merc EV. They use the merc for 200miles+ journeys around once a month and do say it involves too much planning of pit stops and definitely adds to their journey times due to inconvenient charging points, they wish they had gone for a Tesla instead.

EricMears

I used to have an e-Up!

It was only ever intended as a 'shopping trolley' on account of limited range so wad eventually replaced with something with more range which eventually allowed us to 'retire' a diesel.

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

We've got a 2018 IONIQ with a 28kWh battery.

The original Ioniq is a stylish car (proper car) but too short a battery range for my needs.  I do like the new Ioniq 5 & 6.

EricMears said:

I used to have an e-Up!

It was only ever intended as a 'shopping trolley' on account of limited range 

Would also be too short range and too small a car for our needs.

silvercar said:

Friends have a VW ID3 and a merc EV. They use the merc for 200miles+ journeys around once a month and do say it involves too much planning of pit stops and definitely adds to their journey times due to inconvenient charging points, they wish they had gone for a Tesla instead.

We saw the iD3 and it did not impress us TBH.

The only MB we could reach would be the EQA which is a fairly short range - if we could reach the EQE that would be more persuasive.  

BUT, this is what I am really trying to understand - how practical is the charging (really) if you don't have access to the supercharger network?  

• We like the Citroen C4, but it is a small battery / range.  
• We plan to view Kia and Hyundai options.  We were in an e-NIRO on Friday and it really impressed
• We liked the MG5 a few weeks ago but zero NCAP killed that option
• There is a good choice of used iPace available so we might see that also.

My older brother has an i3 but never charged away from home as they use the ICE for that.
My cousin had a Polestar but swapped it out for TM3.
My younger brother still awaits his BZ4X.
Another cousin has a C-zero but uses ICE for longer journeys.
I know someone at work who had an early Leaf but now reverted to ICE.  As did Ken.

I do think some of the alternatives to the TM3 / Y are better cars, but the charging access might mean that the TM3 / Y becomes the better electric car even though some parts of the Tesla product less desirable, particularly the one-screen interface.

It is just, as I am in the active process of a new car acquisition, I need to either go EV or stick with ICE - that will then be that for a good number of years.  The worst outcome would be an EV that is too compromised.  Charging infrastructure seems to be the biggest concern about non-Tesla options.  Keen to understand real life experiences.

Are there any options with a longer range that is missed?

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

We've got a 2018 IONIQ with a 28kWh battery.

The original Ioniq is a stylish car (proper car) but too short a battery range for my needs.  I do like the new Ioniq 5 & 6.

EricMears said:

I used to have an e-Up!

It was only ever intended as a 'shopping trolley' on account of limited range 

Would also be too short range and too small a car for our needs.

silvercar said:

Friends have a VW ID3 and a merc EV. They use the merc for 200miles+ journeys around once a month and do say it involves too much planning of pit stops and definitely adds to their journey times due to inconvenient charging points, they wish they had gone for a Tesla instead.

We saw the iD3 and it did not impress us TBH.

The only MB we could reach would be the EQA which is a fairly short range - if we could reach the EQE that would be more persuasive.  

BUT, this is what I am really trying to understand - how practical is the charging (really) if you don't have access to the supercharger network?  

• We like the Citroen C4, but it is a small battery / range.  
• We plan to view Kia and Hyundai options.  We were in an e-NIRO on Friday and it really impressed
• We liked the MG5 a few weeks ago but zero NCAP killed that option
• There is a good choice of used iPace available so we might see that also.

My older brother has an i3 but never charged away from home as they use the ICE for that.
My cousin had a Polestar but swapped it out for TM3.
My younger brother still awaits his BZ4X.
Another cousin has a C-zero but uses ICE for longer journeys.
I know someone at work who had an early Leaf but now reverted to ICE.  As did Ken.

I do think some of the alternatives to the TM3 / Y are better cars, but the charging access might mean that the TM3 / Y becomes the better electric car even though some parts of the Tesla product less desirable, particularly the one-screen interface.

It is just, as I am in the active process of a new car acquisition, I need to either go EV or stick with ICE - that will then be that for a good number of years.  The worst outcome would be an EV that is too compromised.  Charging infrastructure seems to be the biggest concern about non-Tesla options.  Keen to understand real life experiences.

Are there any options with a longer range that is missed?

Does it have to be new? You could do worse than the the original e-Niro 64kWh or Kona as their efficiency was legendary. Take it easy on the loud pedal and 300 miles is achievable in summer. I looked at both in late 2019 but waiting lists were about 9 months then and being keen to get in an EV I opted for the Leaf. Earlier today I was looking at e-Niros on Autotrader and pleasantly surprised at what is available sub £25k. This 22 plate one is £26k.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302204448524

but this 71 plate seems better value at £23k on 19k miles. 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303165306041

They are not particularly quick at charging though but if it is only occasionally then I do see that as an issue. I was always so relieved to get on a working charger that an extra 15 minutes wouldn’t matter to me.

I have heard a few people not so happy with the efficiency/range of the new model Niro EV. Andrew Till, the YouTuber, ran an Ionic 5 for a year (and sold it at a profit) but IIRC efficiency wasn’t great. Maybe the 6 will be better with more aerodynamic styling. 

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

Does it have to be new? You could do worse than the the original e-Niro 64kWh or Kona as their efficiency was legendary. Take it easy on the loud pedal and 300 miles is achievable in summer. I looked at both in late 2019 but waiting lists were about 9 months then 

Thanks Ken, and, no, it doesn't have to be new and probably won't be - I actually put a thread on the motoring forum considering options:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6438782/grumpys-new-car#latest

Funny you mention the e-Niro and Kona as I tried to see those when I was going to change cars pre-COVID and rang the respective local dealers in January 2020 but neither had cars, even for demonstrator purposes, until August / September and then COVID happened so nothing else did.

It was, perhaps, easier then as there were only really four EV's with a long range: TM3; i-PACE; Kona, e-Niro.  

We've been out today to look at Hyundai and Kia.  The Kona is defunct (new model later in the year sometime), the EV6 seems a bit posher than the IONIQ 5 and the Niro seems the most suited to our needs (but not as nice as the EV6).  Used Kona's and e-Niro's are available (Kona is a bit small really).  Overall, though, considering price as well, none of these options were knock-out better than the MGs so we'd revert to the MG4 or MG ZS.

It's is quite frustrating how many models are MPV / SUV styled - we really just want a regular hatchback / saloon car.

Going for anything other than a Tesla, and we will need to be satisfied as to the charging opportunities.  Obviously, with a long range battery, the need for charging away from home should be massively reduced but there still needs to be enough confidence that we'd be able to charge when needed in reasonable order.

JKenH said:

They are not particularly quick at charging though but if it is only occasionally then I do see that as an issue. I was always so relieved to get on a working charger that an extra 15 minutes wouldn’t matter to me.

I am quite comfortable that charging on long journeys should not be a major concern as I welcome the rest break anyway.  But the issue of "relieved to get on a working charger" is not how it should be.

andyg9053

Grumpy_chap said:

Are there any contributors to this thread with experience of any EV other than Tesla, Leaf, MG?

I’ve had a mustang Mach e for almost 2 years. Parcel shelf, charge port flap and drivers door needing 3 button pushes are my only complaint 

Grumpy_chap

andyg9053 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Are there any contributors to this thread with experience of any EV other than Tesla, Leaf, MG?

I’ve had a mustang Mach e for almost 2 years. Parcel shelf, charge port flap and drivers door needing 3 button pushes are my only complaint 

I like Ford cars, but the MachE does not seem to be a proper Ford.

How do you find charging when away from home base?

silverwhistle

JKenH said:

Now of course everyone on here with solar panels and batteries is going to tell me that it only costs them 2p per mile to fuel their EV, which it probably does. Unfortunately those who subscribe to this forum are not typical of those who will be buying an EV in the future. At best (if they have space to park at home) they are going to be able to get a cheap overnight tariff with a penal day rate which for most will work out on average the same as a SVT at around 34p/kWh which will put the cost of home charging for the typical new EV buyer/user at about 10p per mile. 

That’s all well and good but unless you never get out you are also going to have to factor in some rapid charging so all in a new car buyer will probably work out that the cost of charging is going to be similar to filling up with petrol. 

Yep, 2p here, but anybody with an ounce of commonsense will be able to get on a cheap overnight tariff and adjust their usage to lower their average. During the winter with low PV production I was at 17/18p and I'm a low mileage user - no daily commute for me which would aid my overnight usage.

Last weekend I went out across the New Forest to Bournemouth airport (let's not think about the fuel the helicopter I was a passenger in used!), next weekend off to the Isle of Wight so like many people I do go out and all within the range of my car. Three charges out and about in two and a half years, with average annual mileage is my experience and likely the situation of many. We appreciate EVs may not suit you and your usage pattern but please don't posit more general conclusions based on your situation.

On the wider issue of take up I think the general confusion in the market will have put off many. Obviously not the people who bought my MG ZS last autumn for more than I'd paid for it two years earlier! But the company cars coming off lease will find buyers as the market settled down. My MG ZS purchase new was due to the lack of choice and high prices in the SH market, for a single car household. If I were looking now with my historically standard old ICE to change I'd probably buy used. The issue here being the number of higher spec and larger cars which are more than I need. Compact cars with a decent range for everyday and faster charging for occasional longer trips will be a game changer. When they start to come off company leases the situation will be very interesting although that's a few years away yet.

The charging issue for some housing types remains, but perhaps a more pro-active government providing a bit of strategic leadership may help. This also applies to charging for longer distance travel on our main arteries, where it is patently obvious that the DNOs need a good kicking to get their act together.

JKenH

Revealed: The electric used cars that increased and decreased the most in value in March

Tesla Model Y saw largest price increase in March month-on-month, while Volvo XC40 saw biggest fall

The picture is ‘incredibly nuanced’, Auto Trader’s data and insights director Richard Walker told Car Dealer

Although consumer demand for used electric cars was up 23 per cent year-on-year last month, the levels of supply increased 270 per cent,’ he said.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/revealed-the-electric-used-cars-that-increased-and-decreased-the-most-in-value-in-march/282430