EV Discussion thread

Martyn1981

QrizB said:

michaels said:

But say you didn't know how to do it yourself, what would a 20kwh battery cost, installed?

A used Leaf isn't an installed battery, either

There are a selection of options, with prices, here:
https://nakedsolar.co.uk/storage/

Not being pedantic, more thinking out loud, but in the context of Michaels situation, where the V2G already covers all of the house connections and DNO legalities, isn't that second Leaf an 'installed' battery whenever it is plugged in?

QrizB

Martyn1981 said:

QrizB said:

michaels said:

But say you didn't know how to do it yourself, what would a 20kwh battery cost, installed?

A used Leaf isn't an installed battery, either

There are a selection of options, with prices, here:
https://nakedsolar.co.uk/storage/

Not being pedantic, more thinking out loud, but in the context of Michaels situation, where the V2G already covers all of the house connections and DNO legalities, isn't that second Leaf an 'installed' battery whenever it is plugged in?

That wasn't michaels' original question, or their revised one.

According to this report from last year, a V2G charger is £3700 more than a regular EV wallbox. You could buy a complete commercial AC-coupled battery system for that sort of money.

(I'm really sorry for messing up the EV thread, I'll stop now.)

JKenH

Electric vehicle demand is so hot that Tesla owners are flipping their cars like houses

I wonder, given the long waiting lists, if folk are ordering Tesla’s (and other scarce EVs ) purposely to sell them on at a profit. It has happened with some prestige brands in the past. May be part of the reason lead times for Tesla’s are so long. I remember when the lead time for a Morgan was several years. 

Read more at: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article263091918.html#storylink=cpy

shinytop

Maybe not in the UK.  Aren't most on leases or SS?  Maybe more cash buyers in the US. 

JKenH

EV drivers now face an eco-backlash

And you thought driving an EV was OK. Not according to some. Generally where we place ourselves on the spectrum of being green depends how much personal inconvenience we are prepared to tolerate. Most of us on here with electric cars, solar panels and gas CH believe we are doing our bit but the next generation of GTs will put the blame for the planet on our lifestyle, not that of previous generations. 

“We consider hybrids and electric SUVs to be fair game. We cannot electrify our way out of the climate crisis – there are not enough rare earth metals to replace everyone’s car and the mining of these metals causes suffering. Plus, the danger to other road users still stands, as does the air pollution (PM 2.5 pollution is still produced from tyres and brake pads).”

https://drives.today/news/839/tech/ev-drivers-now-face-an-eco-backlash/sam-dawson.html

1961Nick

JKenH said:

EV drivers now face an eco-backlash

And you thought driving an EV was OK. Not according to some. Generally where we place ourselves on the spectrum of being green depends how much personal inconvenience we are prepared to tolerate. Most of us on here with electric cars, solar panels and gas CH believe we are doing our bit but the next generation of GTs will put the blame for the planet on our lifestyle, not that of previous generations. 

“We consider hybrids and electric SUVs to be fair game. We cannot electrify our way out of the climate crisis – there are not enough rare earth metals to replace everyone’s car and the mining of these metals causes suffering. Plus, the danger to other road users still stands, as does the air pollution (PM 2.5 pollution is still produced from tyres and brake pads).”

https://drives.today/news/839/tech/ev-drivers-now-face-an-eco-backlash/sam-dawson.html

However, this generation has reduced PM 2.5 by 80% during the past 50 years & road transport is responsible for 17% of the remaining 20%.

I don't know what the breakdown is between tyre particles & brake particles, but regenerative braking should massively reduce the braking element - I've personally used the brakes on my EV less than a dozen times this year.

JKenH

Bit of old news, (and from a magazine, not an online source) but interestingly the Mini was the best selling electric vehicle in April 2022. 

JKenH

Tesla driver fined £26 for speeding in Sussex

I am just trying to understand why this story made the papers. Anything that happens with a Tesla seems to be ‘news’. ‘All publicity is good publicity’ they say but how do Tesla manage to capture the headlines so frequently when they probably account for, what, less than 1% of cars on the road? It was only last year that the TM3 overtook the Leaf as the most common EV on UK roads but for some time before that Tesla was the ‘Hoover’ of the EV world. 

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20240137.tesla-driver-fined-26-speeding-sussex/

JKenH

How does BMW’s i7 stack up against the Mercedes EQS?

Interesting that BMW are launching the electric version of the new 7 series (end of 2022) ahead of the combustion version. I wonder how this and the Mercedes EQS will fare compared to Tesla model S. it’s only a couple of years ago that Sandy Munro was talking about Tesla being 5-10 years ahead of the OEMs. The rate at which the OEMs are turning out new EV designs and getting them into production is surprising and suggests they are catching up quicker than expected. One might think they are developing their EVs faster than Tesla has and could Tesla with its limited and somewhat dated model range be left behind?

https://www.just-auto.com/analysis/how-does-bmws-i7-stack-up-against-the-mercedes-eqs/

Lexus have also launched their first full EV so the choice in the premium brand market is getting much wider.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/356744/new-2022-lexus-rz-450e-sees-brand-enter-new-era-electrification

And then we have the Audi Urbansphere due in 2025.

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2025-audi-urbansphere-previewed-price-specs-and-release-date/n24477

The advantage that Tesla appear to have is that they can produce their cars much cheaper than OEMs but can the OEMs charge a higher price? Will Tesla’s lack of new designs eventually impact on sales?

I am sure there is room for all to survive but I don’t think one brand will be able to take more than 10% of the total EV market.

1961Nick

The advantage Tesla currently have, & will have for the short to medium term, is the ability to mass produce vehicles. I'm sure there will be plenty of very desirable challengers for the Model S, but will any actually be made in significant enough numbers to make a difference? The biggest challenge will probably come from a Chinese brand rather than a legacy European brand.

Profitability is another issue that's going to become a problem for legacy auto when the market becomes more competitive. Tesla are clearly highly profitable but everyone else is just breaking even at best on their BEV offerings. Some are reputed to be losing millions & are using demand elevated ICE profits to disguise BEV losses - for example GM's price reduction on the Bolt. The rapidly increasing number of expensive to manufacture hybrids also signals trouble ahead when the market returns to a supply/demand equilibrium.

The biggest fear for legacy auto has to be the launch of a Tesla model 2. That event could be the final nail for some participants. Ken mentioned an article earlier that stated the Mini was the best selling BEV in April - that's exactly the price point that a Model 2 would launch at & with a range double that of the Mini. BMW then have to find a way of cramming more kWh into the Mini which would require more energy dense batteries & more of them which is of course more expensive.