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EV Discussion thread

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  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 28,146 Forumite
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    WE bought a second leaf yesterday, not to drive but because it is a 19-20 kwh battery storage for £6k.  The value of the battery seems to put a floor on the value of second hand EVs.
    I think....
  • 1961Nick
    1961Nick Posts: 2,092 Forumite
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    michaels said:
    WE bought a second leaf yesterday, not to drive but because it is a 19-20 kwh battery storage for £6k.  The value of the battery seems to put a floor on the value of second hand EVs.
    The salvage value of the battery packs has proved to be a caste iron floor for early Leaf values. If you’ve got a 20kWh pack then it’s worth about £8000 once it’s recovered & modified for domestic storage - or can you do V2H?
    4kWp (black/black) - Sofar Inverter - SSE(141°) - 30° pitch - North Lincs
    Installed June 2013 - PVGIS = 3400
    Sofar ME3000SP Inverter & 5 x Pylontech US2000B Plus & 3 x US2000C Batteries - 19.2kWh
  • shinytop
    shinytop Posts: 2,104 Forumite
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    1961Nick said:
    michaels said:
    WE bought a second leaf yesterday, not to drive but because it is a 19-20 kwh battery storage for £6k.  The value of the battery seems to put a floor on the value of second hand EVs.
    The salvage value of the battery packs has proved to be a caste iron floor for early Leaf values. If you’ve got a 20kWh pack then it’s worth about £8000 once it’s recovered & modified for domestic storage - or can you do V2H?

    It's often said on these forums that in a few years time everyone will be able to afford second hand, the expensive EVs that we are subsidising people to buy new now.  Instead, it seems we're subsidising affluent people to buy these expensive cars now so that other affluent people can save a few quid on electricity a few years later when these perfectly good EVs are scrapped.

    Not having a go at anyone BTW.  But a £6-8k floor on second hand car values is not necessarily a good thing. 

     
  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 4,895 Forumite
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    I was just wondering if old Leaf batteries, lacking active cooling and hence simpler, are more valuable for static applications than those from active cooled cars. It was the prospect of using it for V2H/V2G that inspired me to buy my first Leaf, thinking for the price of a home battery you got a free car thrown in. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to get on any V2G/V2H trial as I had too much solar PV. My son now has that Leaf and after his Wallbox Quasar trial has ended, is using it for V2H. He tells me though the battery doesn’t kick in until demand exceeds1.5kWh. 

    I am now waiting to see if I can get on another trial with my 40kWh Leaf.
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 13,822 Forumite
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    edited 1 July 2022 at 9:16AM
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    shinytop said:
    1961Nick said:
    michaels said:
    WE bought a second leaf yesterday, not to drive but because it is a 19-20 kwh battery storage for £6k.  The value of the battery seems to put a floor on the value of second hand EVs.
    The salvage value of the battery packs has proved to be a caste iron floor for early Leaf values. If you’ve got a 20kWh pack then it’s worth about £8000 once it’s recovered & modified for domestic storage - or can you do V2H?
    It's often said on these forums that in a few years time everyone will be able to afford second hand, the expensive EVs that we are subsidising people to buy new now.  Instead, it seems we're subsidising affluent people to buy these expensive cars now so that other affluent people can save a few quid on electricity a few years later when these perfectly good EVs are scrapped.
    I'm not sure I agree with that.
    You can buy 20kWh of brand-new LFP cells and a BMS direct from China for about £3k and hook them directly up to a regular 48V AC- or DC-coupled inverter (your Lux or Sofar or whatever) without any messing about.
    In Blue Peter style, here's one I made earlier (a lot smaller than 20kWh, admittedly):
    IMG-20210827-173002467-rotated
    Spending twice as much for a 10-year-old battery pack from a Leaf, which you then need to modify further, seems an odd choice.
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Go elec & Tracker gas / Shell BB / Lyca mobi. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 30MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Taking a break, hope to be back eventually.
    Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs.
  • shinytop
    shinytop Posts: 2,104 Forumite
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    QrizB said:
    shinytop said:
    1961Nick said:
    michaels said:
    WE bought a second leaf yesterday, not to drive but because it is a 19-20 kwh battery storage for £6k.  The value of the battery seems to put a floor on the value of second hand EVs.
    The salvage value of the battery packs has proved to be a caste iron floor for early Leaf values. If you’ve got a 20kWh pack then it’s worth about £8000 once it’s recovered & modified for domestic storage - or can you do V2H?
    It's often said on these forums that in a few years time everyone will be able to afford second hand, the expensive EVs that we are subsidising people to buy new now.  Instead, it seems we're subsidising affluent people to buy these expensive cars now so that other affluent people can save a few quid on electricity a few years later when these perfectly good EVs are scrapped.
    I'm not sure I agree with that.
    You can buy 20kWh of brand-new LFP cells and a BMS direct from China for about £3k and hook them directly up to a regular 48V AC- or DC-coupled inverter (your Lux or Sofar or whatever) without any messing about.
    In Blue Peter style, here's one I made earlier (a lot smaller than 20kWh, admittedly):
    IMG-20210827-173002467-rotated
    Spending twice as much for a 10-year-old battery pack from a Leaf, which you then need to modify further, seems an odd choice.
    Nice work! I hope you're right and useable EVs stay where they belong - on the road.
  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 28,146 Forumite
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    edited 1 July 2022 at 1:38PM
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    QrizB said:
    shinytop said:
    1961Nick said:
    michaels said:
    WE bought a second leaf yesterday, not to drive but because it is a 19-20 kwh battery storage for £6k.  The value of the battery seems to put a floor on the value of second hand EVs.
    The salvage value of the battery packs has proved to be a caste iron floor for early Leaf values. If you’ve got a 20kWh pack then it’s worth about £8000 once it’s recovered & modified for domestic storage - or can you do V2H?
    It's often said on these forums that in a few years time everyone will be able to afford second hand, the expensive EVs that we are subsidising people to buy new now.  Instead, it seems we're subsidising affluent people to buy these expensive cars now so that other affluent people can save a few quid on electricity a few years later when these perfectly good EVs are scrapped.
    I'm not sure I agree with that.
    You can buy 20kWh of brand-new LFP cells and a BMS direct from China for about £3k and hook them directly up to a regular 48V AC- or DC-coupled inverter (your Lux or Sofar or whatever) without any messing about.
    In Blue Peter style, here's one I made earlier (a lot smaller than 20kWh, admittedly):
    IMG-20210827-173002467-rotated
    Spending twice as much for a 10-year-old battery pack from a Leaf, which you then need to modify further, seems an odd choice.
    Interesting.  WE have V2H unit so no need for further mods and in theory we get a 'free car' on top although obviously if you are using it to drive then it is not being a battery.  It also has the advantage of being flexible, we can always sell it on if electricity and gas prices fall back to the old normal levels.

    However if it is really possible to get standalone batteries at what is half the cost of what I thought they cost then that will shift the economics for sure.  Could you link to the suppliers and also the inverters, the V2H will do up to about 6kw in/out.
    I think....
  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 28,146 Forumite
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    QrizB said:
    Sorry, we're getting off the topic of EVs here.
    In that photo there are 16 x 25Ah 3.2v LFP cells plus a 60A 16S Smart BMS. That's a total of 1.28kWh, which was really just to give me something to play about with.
    Small cells like that are definitely not the cheapest way to do it however. Larger ones like these 202Ah examples (from what looks like the same seller mine came from) are more economical. Two banks of 16 of those would give a total of 20.7kWh nominal capacity. Prices are a little higher than they were last year but even now you could put that together for 2x£1650 cells + 2x£55 BMS's + maybe £40 for cables, connectors, crimp tool, solder, heatshrink etc. - a total of £3450.
    My inverter was a pre-owned purchase but you can buy a new Sofar ME3000SP in the UK for £983 (£819+VAT).
    Thank you

    But say you didn't know how to do it yourself, what would a 20kwh battery cost, installed?
    I think....
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 13,822 Forumite
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    michaels said:
    But say you didn't know how to do it yourself, what would a 20kwh battery cost, installed?
    A used Leaf isn't an installed battery, either :)
    There are a selection of options, with prices, here:
    https://nakedsolar.co.uk/storage/
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Go elec & Tracker gas / Shell BB / Lyca mobi. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 30MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Taking a break, hope to be back eventually.
    Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs.
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