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EV Discussion thread
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WE bought a second leaf yesterday, not to drive but because it is a 19-20 kwh battery storage for £6k. The value of the battery seems to put a floor on the value of second hand EVs.I think....3
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michaels said:WE bought a second leaf yesterday, not to drive but because it is a 19-20 kwh battery storage for £6k. The value of the battery seems to put a floor on the value of second hand EVs.4kWp (black/black) - Sofar Inverter - SSE(141°) - 30° pitch - North LincsInstalled June 2013 - PVGIS = 3400Sofar ME3000SP Inverter & 5 x Pylontech US2000B Plus & 3 x US2000C Batteries - 19.2kWh0
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1961Nick said:michaels said:WE bought a second leaf yesterday, not to drive but because it is a 19-20 kwh battery storage for £6k. The value of the battery seems to put a floor on the value of second hand EVs.
It's often said on these forums that in a few years time everyone will be able to afford second hand, the expensive EVs that we are subsidising people to buy new now. Instead, it seems we're subsidising affluent people to buy these expensive cars now so that other affluent people can save a few quid on electricity a few years later when these perfectly good EVs are scrapped.
Not having a go at anyone BTW. But a £6-8k floor on second hand car values is not necessarily a good thing.
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I was just wondering if old Leaf batteries, lacking active cooling and hence simpler, are more valuable for static applications than those from active cooled cars. It was the prospect of using it for V2H/V2G that inspired me to buy my first Leaf, thinking for the price of a home battery you got a free car thrown in. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to get on any V2G/V2H trial as I had too much solar PV. My son now has that Leaf and after his Wallbox Quasar trial has ended, is using it for V2H. He tells me though the battery doesn’t kick in until demand exceeds1.5kWh.I am now waiting to see if I can get on another trial with my 40kWh Leaf.Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)2
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shinytop said:1961Nick said:michaels said:WE bought a second leaf yesterday, not to drive but because it is a 19-20 kwh battery storage for £6k. The value of the battery seems to put a floor on the value of second hand EVs.I'm not sure I agree with that.You can buy 20kWh of brand-new LFP cells and a BMS direct from China for about £3k and hook them directly up to a regular 48V AC- or DC-coupled inverter (your Lux or Sofar or whatever) without any messing about.In Blue Peter style, here's one I made earlier (a lot smaller than 20kWh, admittedly):Spending twice as much for a 10-year-old battery pack from a Leaf, which you then need to modify further, seems an odd choice.N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Intelligent Go elec & Tracker gas / Vodafone BB / iD mobile. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 34 MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.Not exactly back from my break, but dipping in and out of the forum.Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs, Best kettle!0 -
QrizB said:shinytop said:1961Nick said:michaels said:WE bought a second leaf yesterday, not to drive but because it is a 19-20 kwh battery storage for £6k. The value of the battery seems to put a floor on the value of second hand EVs.I'm not sure I agree with that.You can buy 20kWh of brand-new LFP cells and a BMS direct from China for about £3k and hook them directly up to a regular 48V AC- or DC-coupled inverter (your Lux or Sofar or whatever) without any messing about.In Blue Peter style, here's one I made earlier (a lot smaller than 20kWh, admittedly):Spending twice as much for a 10-year-old battery pack from a Leaf, which you then need to modify further, seems an odd choice.0
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QrizB said:shinytop said:1961Nick said:michaels said:WE bought a second leaf yesterday, not to drive but because it is a 19-20 kwh battery storage for £6k. The value of the battery seems to put a floor on the value of second hand EVs.I'm not sure I agree with that.You can buy 20kWh of brand-new LFP cells and a BMS direct from China for about £3k and hook them directly up to a regular 48V AC- or DC-coupled inverter (your Lux or Sofar or whatever) without any messing about.In Blue Peter style, here's one I made earlier (a lot smaller than 20kWh, admittedly):Spending twice as much for a 10-year-old battery pack from a Leaf, which you then need to modify further, seems an odd choice.
However if it is really possible to get standalone batteries at what is half the cost of what I thought they cost then that will shift the economics for sure. Could you link to the suppliers and also the inverters, the V2H will do up to about 6kw in/out.I think....0 -
Sorry, we're getting off the topic of EVs here.In that photo there are 16 x 25Ah 3.2v LFP cells plus a 60A 16S Smart BMS. That's a total of 1.28kWh, which was really just to give me something to play about with.Small cells like that are definitely not the cheapest way to do it however. Larger ones like these 202Ah examples (from what looks like the same seller mine came from) are more economical. Two banks of 16 of those would give a total of 20.7kWh nominal capacity. Prices are a little higher than they were last year but even now you could put that together for 2x£1650 cells + 2x£55 BMS's + maybe £40 for cables, connectors, crimp tool, solder, heatshrink etc. - a total of £3450.My inverter was a pre-owned purchase but you can buy a new Sofar ME3000SP in the UK for £983 (£819+VAT).N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Intelligent Go elec & Tracker gas / Vodafone BB / iD mobile. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 34 MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.Not exactly back from my break, but dipping in and out of the forum.Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs, Best kettle!5 -
QrizB said:Sorry, we're getting off the topic of EVs here.In that photo there are 16 x 25Ah 3.2v LFP cells plus a 60A 16S Smart BMS. That's a total of 1.28kWh, which was really just to give me something to play about with.Small cells like that are definitely not the cheapest way to do it however. Larger ones like these 202Ah examples (from what looks like the same seller mine came from) are more economical. Two banks of 16 of those would give a total of 20.7kWh nominal capacity. Prices are a little higher than they were last year but even now you could put that together for 2x£1650 cells + 2x£55 BMS's + maybe £40 for cables, connectors, crimp tool, solder, heatshrink etc. - a total of £3450.My inverter was a pre-owned purchase but you can buy a new Sofar ME3000SP in the UK for £983 (£819+VAT).
But say you didn't know how to do it yourself, what would a 20kwh battery cost, installed?I think....0 -
michaels said:But say you didn't know how to do it yourself, what would a 20kwh battery cost, installed?A used Leaf isn't an installed battery, eitherN. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Intelligent Go elec & Tracker gas / Vodafone BB / iD mobile. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 34 MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.Not exactly back from my break, but dipping in and out of the forum.Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs, Best kettle!0
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