Hybrid thoughts?

Martyn1981

ComicGeek said:

Herzlos said:

ComicGeek said:

Don't see the point of plug-in hybrids though, falls between two stools IMO.

I'd have said the opposite, actually. a plug-in hybrid will at least let you charge it up without using the engine much, so if you're always sticking to the battery only range you never need to use fuel.  Whereas a self-charging hybrid is only really charging the battery from regenerative braking so will only give you a very small realistic range on electric.

Of course, a full electric is going to be far better assuming no random days with huge mileage.

The extra weight of the larger battery for the plug-in hybrid makes it significantly less efficient when you've run out of the limited battery, so not great if you need to do more than 30 miles. For those who do lots of short trips using only the battery, you still have to run the ICE at times to maintain the engine - I bet that's not built into the official mpg figures. What is the engine condition of a hybrid that has only run on battery for years? 

The plug-in hybrids that I looked at had lower total range (battery + fuel tank) than my current EV. I looked at one for my wife, but no way that she would bother to plug it in every night - so would be less efficient overall than an ICE. Plugging in the EV every 3/4 days is easier, and a self charging hybrid is even easier.

I just don't see that the extra cost for a plug-in hybrid is worth it, over and above the self charging hybrid. Definitely didn't work for us when I looked at the figures, and instead just jumped to the full EV.

Just for reference, though only an example, so of little help. But we've got a 2018 Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh BEV. The range was HEV, PHEV and BEV. The PHEV is 50kg heavier than the HEV, and the BEV is 50kg lighter (1,420kg).

So in this example, with a relatively small battery, but ~130 miles reliable range, the weight differences are minimal. The newer BEV has a 38kWh battery, and weighs about 70kg more again. 

I may be splitting hairs now, but the larger PHEV battery (v's HEV) will also allow for more re-gen braking, as batts can only absorb so much power. Effectively a bigger funnel before the excess overflows, and friction braking is needed. This is very noticeable with big battery Tesla's, that can actually push you into the seatbelt if you fully lift off the accelerator.

Not sure if this will make sense, but if we only had a binary choice of HEV or PHEV, I'd say PHEV every time, and try to charge the battery as much as possible. But with BEV's and PHEV's getting closer on price, I appreciate the 'best of both worlds, worst of both worlds' situation for PHEV's, and would (where possible) suggest leapfrogging to BEV.

Herzlos

I can see the merit of a PHEV if your usage pattern is mostly within the limited battery range (under 30 miles) with the other trips being more than the range of the BEV version. But that's kind of niche.

Steve182

ComicGeek said:

Steve182 said:

Petriix said:

Unless she's regularly driving over 200 miles per day or is home for less than 7 hours per night then an EV would certainly be a better choice. Hybrids often average around 40mpg in normal usage. That's ~ 20p per mile. EVs charged at 7.5p per kWh run at 2p per mile.

Please tell me where one can charge an EV at 7.5p/kwh?

My current cost, if charging at home is 28p or about 10p/mile

Do you only get 2.8 miles per kWh from your EV? That's really inefficient, and part of your issue.

I do >95% of my charging at work for free and <5% at home with the plug in charger that came with the car, so the charging cost is not an issue for me. I get pretty rubbish miles per kwh because I love the cars performance and exploit it whenever safe and legal. It matters not to me whether it costs 6p mile or 12p mile, both are incredibly cheap compared to ICE cars. I'd much rather drive a 360hp EV and have some enjoyment at 10p or more PM than a 100hp @ 5p!

I raised the point about 7.5p/kwh being unrealistic because it's misleading. As others have said, you get a split tariff but rob Peter to pay Paul so it's not really 7.5p. 

Martyn1981

For those able to make / afford the changes, a BEV, PV and night rate leccy is an excellent combination, with the large BEV consumption able to charge on the night rate, and the PV helping to minimise daytime leccy import. During the summer months, we're able to charge the BEV's almost exclusively from PV.

daymouse

After some investigation it looks like the NHS giveS 56p per mile no matter what fuel including EV! So that could be quite a chunk towards the lease cost per month 

Grumpy_chap

daymouse said:

After some investigation it looks like the NHS giveS 56p per mile no matter what fuel including EV! So that could be quite a chunk towards the lease cost per month 

That's a generous and unusual rate as it will create a BIK liability for every mile.

daymouse

Grumpy_chap said:

daymouse said:

After some investigation it looks like the NHS giveS 56p per mile no matter what fuel including EV! So that could be quite a chunk towards the lease cost per month 

That's a generous and unusual rate as it will create a BIK liability for every mile.

BIK?       

Grumpy_chap

Benefit in Kind.
Because the rate of 56 pence per mile exceed the maximum amount that is tax free, there is a liability to income tax on the difference

DrEskimo

Steve182 said:

ComicGeek said:

Steve182 said:

Petriix said:

Unless she's regularly driving over 200 miles per day or is home for less than 7 hours per night then an EV would certainly be a better choice. Hybrids often average around 40mpg in normal usage. That's ~ 20p per mile. EVs charged at 7.5p per kWh run at 2p per mile.

Please tell me where one can charge an EV at 7.5p/kwh?

My current cost, if charging at home is 28p or about 10p/mile

Do you only get 2.8 miles per kWh from your EV? That's really inefficient, and part of your issue.

I do >95% of my charging at work for free and <5% at home with the plug in charger that came with the car, so the charging cost is not an issue for me. I get pretty rubbish miles per kwh because I love the cars performance and exploit it whenever safe and legal. It matters not to me whether it costs 6p mile or 12p mile, both are incredibly cheap compared to ICE cars. I'd much rather drive a 360hp EV and have some enjoyment at 10p or more PM than a 100hp @ 5p!

I raised the point about 7.5p/kwh being unrealistic because it's misleading. As others have said, you get a split tariff but rob Peter to pay Paul so it's not really 7.5p. 

It really isn't. It doesn't take a high % of your usage to be in the off-peak period before you get an average cost/kWh lower than a flat rate tariff.

With an EV, nearly half my energy use is the car alone and can be shifted to off-peak. Brings the average cost to ~£0.20/kWh. Well below the £0.28/kWh on a flat rate, and that's before the further rises in October.

Steve182

DrEskimo said:

Steve182 said:

ComicGeek said:

Steve182 said:

Petriix said:

Unless she's regularly driving over 200 miles per day or is home for less than 7 hours per night then an EV would certainly be a better choice. Hybrids often average around 40mpg in normal usage. That's ~ 20p per mile. EVs charged at 7.5p per kWh run at 2p per mile.

Please tell me where one can charge an EV at 7.5p/kwh?

My current cost, if charging at home is 28p or about 10p/mile

Do you only get 2.8 miles per kWh from your EV? That's really inefficient, and part of your issue.

I do >95% of my charging at work for free and <5% at home with the plug in charger that came with the car, so the charging cost is not an issue for me. I get pretty rubbish miles per kwh because I love the cars performance and exploit it whenever safe and legal. It matters not to me whether it costs 6p mile or 12p mile, both are incredibly cheap compared to ICE cars. I'd much rather drive a 360hp EV and have some enjoyment at 10p or more PM than a 100hp @ 5p!

I raised the point about 7.5p/kwh being unrealistic because it's misleading. As others have said, you get a split tariff but rob Peter to pay Paul so it's not really 7.5p. 

It really isn't. It doesn't take a high % of your usage to be in the off-peak period before you get an average cost/kWh lower than a flat rate tariff.

With an EV, nearly half my energy use is the car alone and can be shifted to off-peak. Brings the average cost to ~£0.20/kWh. Well below the £0.28/kWh on a flat rate, and that's before the further rises in October.

How many bedrooms do you have and are they all occupied?
I can promise you that with 1 EV and at least 4 bedrooms/occupants paying over £200/month for electricity excluding charging cost, split tariffs are of no benefit.