Hybrid thoughts?

ComicGeek

Also a big difference between a plug-in hybrid and a self charging hybrid.

I've had a few self charging hybrids, and it worked well at the time - still has a large fuel tank and range, but with improved fuel efficiency.

Don't see the point of plug-in hybrids though, falls between two stools IMO.

Herzlos

ComicGeek said:

Don't see the point of plug-in hybrids though, falls between two stools IMO.

I'd have said the opposite, actually. a plug-in hybrid will at least let you charge it up without using the engine much, so if you're always sticking to the battery only range you never need to use fuel.  Whereas a self-charging hybrid is only really charging the battery from regenerative braking so will only give you a very small realistic range on electric.

Of course, a full electric is going to be far better assuming no random days with huge mileage.

ComicGeek

Herzlos said:

ComicGeek said:

Don't see the point of plug-in hybrids though, falls between two stools IMO.

I'd have said the opposite, actually. a plug-in hybrid will at least let you charge it up without using the engine much, so if you're always sticking to the battery only range you never need to use fuel.  Whereas a self-charging hybrid is only really charging the battery from regenerative braking so will only give you a very small realistic range on electric.

Of course, a full electric is going to be far better assuming no random days with huge mileage.

The extra weight of the larger battery for the plug-in hybrid makes it significantly less efficient when you've run out of the limited battery, so not great if you need to do more than 30 miles. For those who do lots of short trips using only the battery, you still have to run the ICE at times to maintain the engine - I bet that's not built into the official mpg figures. What is the engine condition of a hybrid that has only run on battery for years? 

The plug-in hybrids that I looked at had lower total range (battery + fuel tank) than my current EV. I looked at one for my wife, but no way that she would bother to plug it in every night - so would be less efficient overall than an ICE. Plugging in the EV every 3/4 days is easier, and a self charging hybrid is even easier.

I just don't see that the extra cost for a plug-in hybrid is worth it, over and above the self charging hybrid. Definitely didn't work for us when I looked at the figures, and instead just jumped to the full EV.

daymouse

Thanks for all the replies. I’m trying to get some figures off the wife. 

The reason we are looking at a Hybrid Kona is one of the wifes colleagues has one and says she has ranged from 56 to 94 mpg. 

I’ve asked the wife and she says she use about half a tank a week which is 23L a week. I’m just trying to find out approx how many miles she does a week

Grumpy_chap

Like @ComicGeek I have also had self-charging hybrid and I fail to see the point of plug-in hybrid.

My self-charging hybrid was a proper hybrid (unlike some of the cars now that use the term "hybrid" or "electrified" but actually run on full battery ever.  I found the fuel efficiency from the hybrid less than exceptional, probably because of my mix of driving at the time involving too much motorway.  I also found it was impossible to drive sufficiently gently as to actually stay on EV.

One of my friends recently acquired a Niro PHEV and he also experiences the challenge that the ICE is too keen to assist.

I also reached the conclusion that the way to go is full-EV or full-ICE and avoid the compromises in the middle.  The number of cases where full-ICE is needed will continue to decrease as full-EV capability is improving all the time.

Finally, for the case of high mpg from a PHEV, don't forget to consider the energy input from the plug:

daymouse said:

The reason we are looking at a Hybrid Kona is one of the wifes colleagues has one and says she has ranged from 56 to 94 mpg. 

Steve182

Petriix said:

Unless she's regularly driving over 200 miles per day or is home for less than 7 hours per night then an EV would certainly be a better choice. Hybrids often average around 40mpg in normal usage. That's ~ 20p per mile. EVs charged at 7.5p per kWh run at 2p per mile.

Please tell me where one can charge an EV at 7.5p/kwh?

My current cost, if charging at home is 28p or about 10p/mile

MX5huggy

Steve182 said:

Petriix said:

Unless she's regularly driving over 200 miles per day or is home for less than 7 hours per night then an EV would certainly be a better choice. Hybrids often average around 40mpg in normal usage. That's ~ 20p per mile. EVs charged at 7.5p per kWh run at 2p per mile.

Please tell me where one can charge an EV at 7.5p/kwh?

My current cost, if charging at home is 28p or about 10p/mile

At home using the Octopus Go and Go Faster tariffs. https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-go-tariff/ You pay a bit of a premium on the peak hours but as long as you can get 33% into the cheap 4 hour slot you will save compared to being on Cap , it is also fixed for 1 year so avoiding Octobers price rise. 

laidbackgjr

MX5huggy said:

Steve182 said:

Petriix said:

Unless she's regularly driving over 200 miles per day or is home for less than 7 hours per night then an EV would certainly be a better choice. Hybrids often average around 40mpg in normal usage. That's ~ 20p per mile. EVs charged at 7.5p per kWh run at 2p per mile.

Please tell me where one can charge an EV at 7.5p/kwh?

My current cost, if charging at home is 28p or about 10p/mile

At home using the Octopus Go and Go Faster tariffs. https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-go-tariff/ You pay a bit of a premium on the peak hours but as long as you can get 33% into the cheap 4 hour slot you will save compared to being on Cap , it is also fixed for 1 year so avoiding Octobers price rise. 

The Octopus Go tariffs make charging the EV cheaper, but you spend more on the everyday running the house, I suspect for many people it's a robin Peter to pay Paul and the true cost of charging the EV isn't the 7.5p but closer to the 28p - clearly the more energy you can get into the cheap slot the better - but to say the true cost is 7.5p when to get that you have to pay more to cook your dinner  / keep the fridge cool isn't really a fair comparison. It also doesn't work for those that are out at night and want to charge during the day.

ComicGeek

Steve182 said:

Petriix said:

Unless she's regularly driving over 200 miles per day or is home for less than 7 hours per night then an EV would certainly be a better choice. Hybrids often average around 40mpg in normal usage. That's ~ 20p per mile. EVs charged at 7.5p per kWh run at 2p per mile.

Please tell me where one can charge an EV at 7.5p/kwh?

My current cost, if charging at home is 28p or about 10p/mile

Do you only get 2.8 miles per kWh from your EV? That's really inefficient, and part of your issue.

MX5huggy

laidbackgjr said:

MX5huggy said:

Steve182 said:

Petriix said:

Unless she's regularly driving over 200 miles per day or is home for less than 7 hours per night then an EV would certainly be a better choice. Hybrids often average around 40mpg in normal usage. That's ~ 20p per mile. EVs charged at 7.5p per kWh run at 2p per mile.

Please tell me where one can charge an EV at 7.5p/kwh?

My current cost, if charging at home is 28p or about 10p/mile

At home using the Octopus Go and Go Faster tariffs. https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-go-tariff/ You pay a bit of a premium on the peak hours but as long as you can get 33% into the cheap 4 hour slot you will save compared to being on Cap , it is also fixed for 1 year so avoiding Octobers price rise. 

The Octopus Go tariffs make charging the EV cheaper, but you spend more on the everyday running the house, I suspect for many people it's a robin Peter to pay Paul and the true cost of charging the EV isn't the 7.5p but closer to the 28p - clearly the more energy you can get into the cheap slot the better - but to say the true cost is 7.5p when to get that you have to pay more to cook your dinner  / keep the fridge cool isn't really a fair comparison. It also doesn't work for those that are out at night and want to charge during the day.

Yes that’s why I say you have to get 1/3rd in the cheap slot. I’m just renewing it for another year so last year I got 66.6% in the cheap slot, which was 20:30 to 00:30.   With a rate of 5p and 15.91p my average unit cost has been 8.64p my new rates will be 7.5p and 35.04p if I can keep the same usage ratio my average unit cost will be 16.68p. The cheap slot is moving an hour later so there will be a bit more work but washing machine dish washer and tumble dryer will still all be in the cheap slot. Daytime base load is offset by Solar PV most days (but I don’t have a battery). Then I’m avoiding the October price rise, it works for me. On about 9000 miles of charging per year.