Parking stories in the News/media

Coupon-mad

patient_dream said:

Since the 2019 election, Bolton has been under no overall control. Since the 2023 election, the Labour Party had lead a minority administration. The leader of the council since May 2023 has been Nick Peel.

Every company suffered during Lockdown Most claimed furlow and no doubt NCP did the same ?

Bolton Council had a contract with NCP to which NCP failed to honour and rely on "goodwill" to get their debt reduced.

Nick Peel would be a traitor to all residents of Bolton to allow this

Breaking contract law NCP. ? something your favourite legal BWLegal would take people to court for £100

So, this plead for help from NCP rather suggests they do not have the money

Bolton Council should sue NCP for breacn of contract and then get rid of them.  The money would be better spent by Bolton on potholes and social services before they go bankrupt

Totally agree.

Very much suspect all PPCs who could, raked in furlow money and all the business rates relief et al that they damn well could.

Bolton Council you are spending your residents' money not your own.  The people of Bolton didn't pay their Council Tax to flipping well hand over a million quid to NCP.

daveyjp

Could be useful where you are trapped into paying as no way of leaving the area without paying,

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/69deee3e-5eb4-11ee-b186-11c4e8ddacff

Umkomaas

daveyjp said:

Could be useful where you are trapped into paying as no way of leaving the area without paying,

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/69deee3e-5eb4-11ee-b186-11c4e8ddacff

A landmark court ruling could make it easier to contest fines for those who fall foul of costly airport drop-off fees.

Don't you just love these 'landmark court rulings' in private parking cases!

Le_Kirk

B789 said:

It just basically starts with the headline detail and then goes on about Sunak's campaign against the war on motorists:

A national parking app enabling drivers to pay charges anywhere in the country is to be unveiled by ministers under plans to “slam the brakes” on anti-car measures.

Currently motorists have to download multiple parking apps on their mobile phones to pay charges in different local authority areas.

Mark Harper, the Transport Secretary, will announce next week that people will be able to download just one app of their choice which they can use wherever in the country they are.

The announcement comes ahead of the Conservative Party’s annual conference in Manchester, where Tory politicians and activists will gather on Sunday.

Rishi Sunak will use his first party conference as leader to unveil plans to block councils from introducing new 20mph zones and prevent their “blanket use” in areas where it is not appropriate, as well as new measures to tackle potholes and roadworks.

Presumably this will only be for council car parks but I might have read it wrong.  Whether it is for council only or for PPC also, I can imagine costs/prices increasing because the owner of the app will have to know to whom to allocate the payment and collect payment details for ALL the car parks for ALL the councils and ALL the PPCs in the country!

pinkelephant12

Le_Kirk said:

Presumably this will only be for council car parks but I might have read it wrong.  Whether it is for council only or for PPC also, I can imagine costs/prices increasing because the owner of the app will have to know to whom to allocate the payment and collect payment details for ALL the car parks for ALL the councils and ALL the PPCs in the country!

If this applies to all car parks, it could potentially create a lot of extra revenue for companies such as Horizon Parking who have a parking app, Horizon Spaces.  They will end up charging the motorist and car park owner and keep all the profit themselves.  

Coupon-mad

BPA ex-wheelclampers UKPC put up new signs (reportedly a month ago) then replace them:

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/23823127.signs-change-blackpole-retail-park-parking-rules-confusion/

Looks to me like the first ones created a prohibition on parking, not a contract. Presumably replaced because UKPC couldn't issue PCNs if they weren't actually offering a parking space at £100.

No idea how retail parks think ANPR will stop 'boy racers' given (if they really are a problem here) they'd probably be the sort of chancers to cover their numberplates.

Which I'm not condoning but they'd know it means they could stay all evening. ANPR doesn't solve anything.

Security or Police enforcement is the way to address this issue, if it exists.

Umkomaas

Coupon-mad said:

BPA ex-wheelclampers UKPC put up new signs (reportedly a month ago) then replace them:

They might need to replace again, as the new one says £100/£60 'being issued in accordance with the Private Parking Code of Practice' .... unless they know something we don't! 🙂

Coupon-mad

Umkomaas said:

Coupon-mad said:

BPA ex-wheelclampers UKPC put up new signs (reportedly a month ago) then replace them:
https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/23823127.signs-change-blackpole-retail-park-parking-rules-confusion/

They might need to replace again, as the new one says £100/£60 'being issued in accordance with the Private Parking Code of Practice' .... unless they know something we don't! 🙂

We also saw a similar new one from UKPC earlier this Summer (below) and it cleverly says 'up to £100' which means the sign won't need changing.

Coupon-mad said:

1505grandad said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/boycott-call-for-fenland-retail-park-over-parking-enforcement/ar-AA1g23Nl?ocid=U148DHP&pc=U148&cvid=01f95460628d4c7c9a881f20c1a45bd3&ei=44

UKPC causing discontent again  -  the sign actually states up to £100 "issued in accordance with Private Parking Code of Practice".

That's really useful evidence!

Now, the PPCs will probably all do this where sites include accessible bays - so like this one, I believe next year, signs will say "up to £100". Saves them spending on different signs for accessible bays, staff-only parking spaces, yellow hatched 'no parking' sections, etc.

OK so where is the loss of deterrent value?!

A close-up of the new sign in the new article today:

Up to £100 will be true in almost every car park because there are accessible bays (and places where drivers are not invited to park) at almost every site.

That'll be £100 whatever option is chosen by the DLUHC.  So I think we'll see more of this and it's perfectly OK with me.

Whether it will stand up in court is another matter but on Derek Millard-Smith's head be it.  IIRC he was heard to say the words "up to" are OK at the BPA meeting that someone recorded last year.

It's also easy to see how UKPC could change that £100 for pennies with a bulk order of stickers.

And this bit down the bottom doesn't even quantify the supposed 'additional charges' (as we all know - they almost never do, not even on most NTKs):

Small print, not a headline deterrent:
"Additional charges may apply in accordance with the Private Parking Code of Practice".

No figure stated. As usual. The Call for Evidence thread shows hundreds of signs that prove this point:

It is a nonsense to say the +£70 is 'a deterrent against late payment'. The truth:
There's no deterrent value in the +£70. 

It's not stated anywhere until it's too late.

 

B789

daveyjp said:

Could be useful where you are trapped into paying as no way of leaving the area without paying,

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/69deee3e-5eb4-11ee-b186-11c4e8ddacff

How we beat Gatwick and Heathrow airport drop-off charges

How lawyers helped to overturn one man’s fine for failing to pay a £5 fee at Gatwick when he was collecting his parents.

A landmark court ruling could make it easier to contest fines for those who fall foul of costly airport drop-off fees.

“Kiss and fly” charges are now common at airports, charging drivers up to 60p a minute to drop someone off at the terminal.

But the system at Heathrow and Gatwick has been called into question after a £5 drop-off charge spiralled into a £250 demand from debt collectors.

Simon Fullerton, 47, was taken to court for failing to pay the charge at Gatwick. While most airports take payment by cash or card when you leave the drop-off zone, at Gatwick and Heathrow your registration plate is scanned and you have to pay online by midnight the next day. At Gatwick £5 buys you ten minutes and it costs £25 if you stay longer while at Heathrow you pay £5 per drop-off and there is no time limit.

Fullerton, a children’s entertainer from Lewisham in south London, had collected his parents after they flew in from Belfast on October 14, 2021. He went online to make the payment that evening but never got an email receipt.

The following week when he took his parents back to the airport and paid the fee without issue, he called NCP, which operates the parking zone, to ask about his first payment. NCP said that he had missed the cut-off but offered him the chance to pay £15, which he refused. He was issued a penalty notice of £100, which would be reduced to £60 if he paid within 14 days. “I felt I had been hit with this fine through no fault of my own — I had paid the £5. So I put my foot down,” said Fullerton.

When he didn’t pay, the charge was passed to BW Legal, a debt recovery law firm. By the beginning of this month it had risen to £250 and Fullerton was being taken to Bromley county court.

Luckily, he had help from Richard Evans, a partner at the Memery Crystal law firm, and Edward Levey, KC, a commercial barrister, who decided to act for him free of charge after they also received drop-off penalties.

Levey said: “When I told the parking company that I was planning to take the matter to court, they cancelled the ticket without me even asking them to. It seemed unfair to me that so many people in a similar situation were being pressured into paying, which is why I offered on Twitter to act pro bono for anyone taken to court.”

On September 20, the deputy district judge Hannah Brookfield ruled that Fullerton’s parking charge was unfair under the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. Fullerton had had no opportunity to consider the terms and conditions of the parking contract before he entered Gatwick’s drop-off zone and became liable for the £5, she said. The debt collectors’ claim was thrown out and the firm’s lawyers were told that an appeal was unlikely to succeed.

While a county court ruling does not set legal precedent, it is hoped that this could give others who fall foul of airport charges hope of a successful appeal.

Private parking firms, which run the drop-off zones at airports as well as thousands of other car parks across the country, issued 9.1 million penalty charges last year and only 20 per cent of motorists appealed against the fines, according to the British Parking Association (BPA), a trade group. More than half those appeals were successful, though.

It is not known how many fines were issued in airport drop-off zones.

“I think most people pay because they don’t think they have any other option,” Levey said. “But if I could just get one court to say it’s unfair, that would at least send a message to the parking companies that the charges may not be enforceable, and it might help others in a similar situation.”

Gatwick and Heathrow, which were visited by almost 100 million people last year, introduced drop-off charges in 2021. The airports made a combined £244.7 million from all parking in 2022.

“It feels completely stacked against the consumer,” Fullerton said. “There are plenty of signs with pound signs on them saying that you have to pay, but they didn’t say the amount or that there was a penalty.

“By the time you can read the terms and conditions you’re in the drop-off zone. You can’t reverse out as it’s a one-way road and you’re not supposed to leave your car. It’s a farce.

“When you get these debt letters, it sounds very serious, I hope people start questioning these letters. You’re a consumer, not a criminal.”

BW Legal and NCP said they were considering whether to appeal.

NCP said: “Gatwick uses a free-flow ANPR system to enable motorists to safely drop passengers off and exit the zone safely with no delays.”

It said that a September 2022 audit by the BPA found its drop-off zone signage was “adequate”.

Apcoa, which runs parking at Heathrow, said: “There is clear and extensive signage prior to entering any forecourt that the drop-off charge is in place, how to comply and where to pay.

“There are options/routes to exit all of our forecourt areas without paying if you mistakenly enter or decide that you no longer want to drop off a passenger — as long as the vehicle does not stop.”

How to challenge a fine 

● You have the right to appeal against a penalty notice, whether it is issued by a council or a private firm, and the success rate is good. Include any evidence, for example a screenshot showing that you tried to pay, or photos of confusing signs. You can find sample letters to use online at citizensadvice.org.uk.

● If your appeal to a private firm is rejected, you have 28 days to appeal to the independent service Parking on Private Land Appeals. If you lose at this point, your only option is the small claims court, but this can be expensive. There is a claim fee of about 5 per cent of your claim, a £40 allocation fee and a hearing fee of up to £335.

____________________________________________________________________________________

So, more weak reporting. "Landmark case"... err... I don't think so. Just a well pleaded defence by a barrister. It only goes to show that highlighting the awful signage at these airports can be argues in these cases.

As usual, much erroneous mention of "fines" and "penalties" and no distinction thatches ex-clamper, unregulated private parking companies are not some sort of "authority". No mention that the BPA is just an incestuous cartel masquerading as an ATA.

It was won on CRA breaches:

On September 20, the deputy district judge Hannah Brookfield ruled that Fullerton’s parking charge was unfair under the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. Fullerton had had no opportunity to consider the terms and conditions of the parking contract before he entered Gatwick’s drop-off zone and became liable for the £5, she said. The debt collectors’ claim was thrown out and the firm’s lawyers were told that an appeal was unlikely to succeed.

daveyjp said:
Could be useful where you are trapped into paying as no way of leaving the area without paying,

According to Apcoa, you cannot be "trapped" as long as you don't stop!

"Apcoa, which runs parking at Heathrow, said: “There is clear and extensive signage prior to entering any forecourt that the drop-off charge is in place, how to comply and where to pay.

“There are options/routes to exit all of our forecourt areas without paying if you mistakenly enter or decide that you no longer want to drop off a passenger — as long as the vehicle does not stop.”"

1505grandad

"We also saw a similar new one from UKPC in the Call for Evidence (signage photos) thread - can't find it now - and it cleverly says 'up to £100' which means the sign won't need changing."

Actually on this very thread:-

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80264631/#Comment_80264631