Petrol Forecourt now charging mandatory holding fees, who is responsible for the charge?

Gerry1

Anything is better than buying petrol in the USA with a British credit card.  For security, the pump will probably ask for your ZIP code and refuse authorisation because you don't have one.  You'll have to go into to the shop, queue up and pay for $100's worth or whatever.  You fill up, but the tank is full at $90.  Back to the shop, queue up again for the refund.  It's a nightmare.

IIRC entering a ZIP code of 9999 or 00000 may work for visitors.

It doesn't even provide much security because a card thief might well have the owner's driving licence as well, so finding out their ZIP code would be a trivial challenge.

The pre-authorisation scheme is a good idea, but it for petrol it should be mandatory for the ring fenced amount to be cleared the moment that the bill is paid.  There's no excuse for someone with a low credit limit to be penalised for a moment longer than strictly necessary.

zagfles

This is simple to fix. As the MSE article says, it cuts off at £99, or less if you have less available. So, it's perfectly capable of limiting the delivery to £99 or say £30 if that's all that's available.

So just let users select their own maximum. When you put your card in, it says "max £99, or enter a lower value". So user could enter £30, then it cuts off at £30, and only £30 is reserved. Trivially easy change to make to the software at pay at pumps

WillPS

zagfles said:

Trivially easy change to make to the software at pay at pumps

What makes you believe this is true? Do you have experience in the field of integrated EFTPOS systems?

zagfles

WillPS said:

zagfles said:

Trivially easy change to make to the software at pay at pumps

What makes you believe this is true? Do you have experience in the field of integrated EFTPOS systems?

If it's capable of setting a £99 limit, which can be overriden by a check on the available credit/balance on the card, then it's obviously capable of overriding it with a lower user set limit, with a simple change to the software to allow the user to select a lower limit.

In fact, with the price of fuel now, a higher limit would be useful, few weeks ago I hit the max £99 before my tank was full!

So - default to £99, allow user to increase/decrease, override if less available credit (as it already does apparently).

username

Where would the variable limit be selected from? Bearing in mind most pumps are fairly basic devices hardware-wise and no doubt the specialised hardware is expensive too; many pumps are fairly old and do not get replaced often as no doubt there is a lot of capital expenditure required to refresh the associated hardware and software.

The appearance I have seen on some pumps of a fixed montary amount (e.g. £10/20/300) button dispenary on the pump itself is a fairly recent addition when the pumps got replaced with a refurb of the station.

The other thing to consider is the cost/benefit for the business. Ultimately it will cost the business to introduce this niche facility for very little benefit, and general public, being the general public will no doubt be confused/spend time fiddling with it, thus increasing the time spent on the forecourt but without any returns - such as the temptation to potentially buy profitable items in the shop.

With any consumer based business, the aim is to get people turned through as quickly as possible, whilst exposing opportunity to make profit in additional sales and limiting costs.

The communication needs to be made clearer at the pump that a hold of £99 will be placed on your card if you use the pay at the pump, and if you are not comfortable with this to draw the amount of fuel required, and to pay inside the shop.

zagfles

username said:

Where would the variable limit be selected from? Bearing in mind most pumps are fairly basic devices hardware-wise and no doubt the specialised hardware is expensive too; many pumps are fairly old and do not get replaced often as no doubt there is a lot of capital expenditure required to refresh the associated hardware and software.

The appearance I have seen on some pumps of a fixed montary amount (e.g. £10/20/300) button dispenary on the pump itself is a fairly recent addition when the pumps got replaced with a refurb of the station.

The other thing to consider is the cost/benefit for the business. Ultimately it will cost the business to introduce this niche facility for very little benefit, and general public, being the general public will no doubt be confused/spend time fiddling with it, thus increasing the time spent on the forecourt but without any returns - such as the temptation to potentially buy profitable items in the shop.

With any consumer based business, the aim is to get people turned through as quickly as possible, whilst exposing opportunity to make profit in additional sales and limiting costs.

The communication needs to be made clearer at the pump that a hold of £99 will be placed on your card if you use the pay at the pump, and if you are not comfortable with this to draw the amount of fuel required, and to pay inside the shop.

No extra hardware is required. The screen at the pump already interacts with the user to ask for card PIN, to ask if receipt is required, just also ask if a different limit to £99 is required. There is already a keypad and menu buttons. Max one extra button press if user is happy with £99, a few if not, but less time wasted at the pump than queuing to pay the cashier and less cashier time taken possibly meaning less cashiers required saving the business money.

Sandtree

zagfles said:

username said:

Where would the variable limit be selected from? Bearing in mind most pumps are fairly basic devices hardware-wise and no doubt the specialised hardware is expensive too; many pumps are fairly old and do not get replaced often as no doubt there is a lot of capital expenditure required to refresh the associated hardware and software.

The appearance I have seen on some pumps of a fixed montary amount (e.g. £10/20/300) button dispenary on the pump itself is a fairly recent addition when the pumps got replaced with a refurb of the station.

The other thing to consider is the cost/benefit for the business. Ultimately it will cost the business to introduce this niche facility for very little benefit, and general public, being the general public will no doubt be confused/spend time fiddling with it, thus increasing the time spent on the forecourt but without any returns - such as the temptation to potentially buy profitable items in the shop.

With any consumer based business, the aim is to get people turned through as quickly as possible, whilst exposing opportunity to make profit in additional sales and limiting costs.

The communication needs to be made clearer at the pump that a hold of £99 will be placed on your card if you use the pay at the pump, and if you are not comfortable with this to draw the amount of fuel required, and to pay inside the shop.

No extra hardware is required. The screen at the pump already interacts with the user to ask for card PIN, to ask if receipt is required, just also ask if a different limit to £99 is required. There is already a keypad and menu buttons. Max one extra button press if user is happy with £99, a few if not, but less time wasted at the pump than queuing to pay the cashier and less cashier time taken possibly meaning less cashiers required saving the business money.

But how many of those that go for £30 wouldn't have actually spent £30.10 when they overshoot their target? Or end up putting £39.41 in when they realise that more was needed to brim the tank than you thought? Where is that lost revenue in the business model?

Plus to the best of my knowledge the pumps dont cut out when they hit £99, back when I had my gas guzzler the reserved amount was lower and it happily dispensed well beyond the reserve amount. In which case a lot more tech is required to implement the cutting off feature

zagfles

Sandtree said:

zagfles said:

username said:

Where would the variable limit be selected from? Bearing in mind most pumps are fairly basic devices hardware-wise and no doubt the specialised hardware is expensive too; many pumps are fairly old and do not get replaced often as no doubt there is a lot of capital expenditure required to refresh the associated hardware and software.

The appearance I have seen on some pumps of a fixed montary amount (e.g. £10/20/300) button dispenary on the pump itself is a fairly recent addition when the pumps got replaced with a refurb of the station.

The other thing to consider is the cost/benefit for the business. Ultimately it will cost the business to introduce this niche facility for very little benefit, and general public, being the general public will no doubt be confused/spend time fiddling with it, thus increasing the time spent on the forecourt but without any returns - such as the temptation to potentially buy profitable items in the shop.

With any consumer based business, the aim is to get people turned through as quickly as possible, whilst exposing opportunity to make profit in additional sales and limiting costs.

The communication needs to be made clearer at the pump that a hold of £99 will be placed on your card if you use the pay at the pump, and if you are not comfortable with this to draw the amount of fuel required, and to pay inside the shop.

No extra hardware is required. The screen at the pump already interacts with the user to ask for card PIN, to ask if receipt is required, just also ask if a different limit to £99 is required. There is already a keypad and menu buttons. Max one extra button press if user is happy with £99, a few if not, but less time wasted at the pump than queuing to pay the cashier and less cashier time taken possibly meaning less cashiers required saving the business money.

But how many of those that go for £30 wouldn't have actually spent £30.10 when they overshoot their target? Or end up putting £39.41 in when they realise that more was needed to brim the tank than you thought? Where is that lost revenue in the business model?

Plus to the best of my knowledge the pumps dont cut out when they hit £99, back when I had my gas guzzler the reserved amount was lower and it happily dispensed well beyond the reserve amount. In which case a lot more tech is required to implement the cutting off feature

They do cut out, as it states in the MSE article, that's the point. It cut out on me at £99 the other week, and if your avaialble balance or credit is lower it will cut out at a lower limit.

"The pump will cut off automatically once you reach your available balance, meaning you shouldn't be taken over your spending limit or pushed into an unarranged overdraft. "

oddsock12

amexblue said:

Presumably If it's a debit card and your have limited funds it could clean you out until it's refunded?

This is why I never pay at pump. As this has happend to me, and it left me with no money for 7 days.

Ergates

One reason that sometimes the authorisations aren't cancelled straight away (i.e. are left to expire "naturally") is that with some card processors, it isn't possible to link an authorisation to an actual payment.  This is especially true when the auth amount is different from the payment amount.