Petrol Forecourt now charging mandatory holding fees, who is responsible for the charge?

[Deleted User]

amexblue said:

Presumably If it's a debit card and your have limited funds it could clean you out until it's refunded?

The OP mentioned they were using a Nationwide credit card.

born_again

VoxNonIncerta said:

Also what if your doing multiple trips to the fuel pumps each transaction adds up. My point of view remains its unnecessary and an annoyance and it's missing the mark on what is 'supposedly' is meant to do. 

This system has been in operation in Europe for many years. It does not cause a problem. Payment debits after a day or two. So how many people fill up more than once a day?
 I remember it coming in around 10 years ago & we got a few calls from people driving in europe about it. 
This is why using a CC helps. Unless you are really tight on your limit.

If you are using a debit card & have a balance of less than the £100 it will drop down to your limit. Which then limits the amount of fuel you get.

It is all done to stop people exceeding their limits & incurring excess overdraft fee's.

amexblue

Migster said:

VoxNonIncerta said:

Also what if your doing multiple trips to the fuel pumps each transaction adds up. My point of view remains its unnecessary and an annoyance and it's missing the mark on what is 'supposedly' is meant to do. 

The logic is that it ensures you have the funds to pay before the fuel is dispensed. If you are in a shop and have insufficient funds to pay they can just put stuff back on the shelves, but that's not really an option if you've just put 50 litres of fuel into your car.

And what If that's the only money you had on a debit card once the petrol is paid for? What do you live on until it's refunded?

Sandtree

VoxNonIncerta said:
The whole thing doesn't make sense as you are authorised to fill up so why apply the temporary charge? It doesn't change the fact that you have still paid for your fuel. If you go into the main shop and spend the same amount it doesn't charge you.

It depends if you think the fact there is one flawed system, only paying after you've already taken the goods, should be replicated in other systems or if there is an obvious improvement (make sure they can pay before giving the goods) just to make it equal?

The alternative is that you get customers to pay in the shop first and then the pump only meters up to what paid for but then you get into a host of disputes when someone has paid for more fuel than they needed and can they get a refund for the overpayment etc.

Its clearly not equivalent to a normal shop where if you get to the checkout and find you can't pay that you can take some items out the basket etc which is why it does make total sense to validate the payment before making the goods broadly irrecoverable. 

Ebe_Scrooge

amexblue said:

Migster said:

VoxNonIncerta said:

Also what if your doing multiple trips to the fuel pumps each transaction adds up. My point of view remains its unnecessary and an annoyance and it's missing the mark on what is 'supposedly' is meant to do. 

The logic is that it ensures you have the funds to pay before the fuel is dispensed. If you are in a shop and have insufficient funds to pay they can just put stuff back on the shelves, but that's not really an option if you've just put 50 litres of fuel into your car.

And what If that's the only money you had on a debit card once the petrol is paid for? What do you live on until it's refunded?

If you're that down to the wire in terms of available funds then the simplest option is to not use pay-at-the-pump.  Use a manned forecourt where you can put £20-worth or whatever in your tank, then go to the kiosk to pay.

Sandtree

amexblue said:
And what If that's the only money you had on a debit card once the petrol is paid for? What do you live on until it's refunded?

Its not refunded as the money is never taken, its simply ringfenced to prevent you going overdrawn/beyond your limit. Its down to your bank how quickly they drop the ringfencing.

In the same way people suggest using a credit card for the ring fencing of the excess it may be appropriate to consider similar advice for pay at pump... that or alternatively use a pay in shop pump instead.  

username

The way I see it is that so long as the corrected amount is posted to my account, it's not a problem.

I don't know why you are getting so wound up about it, just given the fact that the 'money' is that of your credit card provider in the form of your credit limit. You aren't losing any money, per se.

It is a surety of sorts to ensure that you have enough funds available. Ultimately it was probably increased because people were 'doing a bunk' with the £1 and exploiting the system, and to also bring it in line with what it is on the continent.

MrFrugalFever

There are some interesting points made but I am against large pre-authorisations at pumps as quite frankly I think they are unnecessary. I encountered an issue in France just before COVID struck whereby €150 was taken from my card (holiday fund) as pre-authorisation, which meant that it actually left me short for the rest of the day.

£1 authorisation taken by Tesco is no problem, but £99 or above is just unnecessary.

I can’t see how it is any different to standing at a pump, waiting for a cashier to authorise it, fill up and then go in to the garage to pay, the cashier doesn’t charge you beforehand so why should the pump!

amexblue

Sandtree said:

amexblue said:
And what If that's the only money you had on a debit card once the petrol is paid for? What do you live on until it's refunded?

Its not refunded as the money is never taken, its simply ringfenced to prevent you going overdrawn/beyond your limit. Its down to your bank how quickly they drop the ringfencing.

In the same way people suggest using a credit card for the ring fencing of the excess it may be appropriate to consider similar advice for pay at pump... that or alternatively use a pay in shop pump instead.  

At Sainsbury's it's not ringfenced. You have to wait 3 days for it to be refunded to your card. 

Sandtree

amexblue said:

Sandtree said:

amexblue said:
And what If that's the only money you had on a debit card once the petrol is paid for? What do you live on until it's refunded?

Its not refunded as the money is never taken, its simply ringfenced to prevent you going overdrawn/beyond your limit. Its down to your bank how quickly they drop the ringfencing.

In the same way people suggest using a credit card for the ring fencing of the excess it may be appropriate to consider similar advice for pay at pump... that or alternatively use a pay in shop pump instead.  

At Sainsbury's it's not ringfenced. You have to wait 3 days for it to be refunded to your card. 

Strongly dont believe this is the case unless someone can show a screen shot of the three transactions showing on their online banking

MrFrugalFever said:

I can’t see how it is any different to standing at a pump, waiting for a cashier to authorise it, fill up and then go in to the garage to pay, the cashier doesn’t charge you beforehand so why should the pump!

It isn't different but look at the rate of none payment between the two methods and unsurprisingly you'll find the issue is much lower at Pay @ Pump. Pre-authorisation solves a significant cause of revenue loss for stations.

As already discussed, there are places outside the UK where you do have to pay in advance for pay in the shop but that leads to the different issue of where you think you need £60 of fuel so pay for that in the shop but the car is brimmed at £50