The Mental Debt Struggle...

redofromstart

Hi Keedie.  Sorry to hear you are having such a difficult situation to deal with.  I am a HR director by trade, and part of my job is writing guidance/delivering training/managing absences and stress. I always tried to have an open and honest conversation about what the company wanted and what the individual wanted and how best we could get there without compromising entitlement to benefits or notice period's.  The ACAS/CAB advice generally is to be signed off sick until you exhaust your pay (or SSP) and then wait for a dismissal with paid notice (legal minimum is week per complete year of service to max 12 weeks, so six weeks for you unless your contract says more).  Don't forget you accrue holiday while you are off sick too which may help financially.  If someone was honest that they didn't think they would realistically well enough to come back in the medium term, or that the job was making them ill and there was nothing i could do about that , and that nothing the company did could help then I could dismiss with notice and holiday pay and then could sign on - but it is nerve wracking getting to that point. If you are seriously thinking about resigning then a conversation (ideally with HR ) to say you worry that you are concerned about the impact of your role on your health but you cant afford to resign may see you being offered a solution.  Be careful who you do it with, less experienced managers may treat it as you have resigned.

Hope this helps, huge sympathy.  I took VR with nothing to go to a few years back from a job that was destroying me, have never regretted it for a minute,

Cherryfudge

It sounds as though you really need this break Keedie. Is there an option of going sick to help transition? Or are you still within the effect of the previous period of sick leave?

Are the hand problems stress related? I find my arthritis flares about a week after something stressful.

You always seem to me to have a really good brain and I think you'll find a workable way through this and out the other side.

AntoMac

Well done for thinking of putting yourself first Keedie. A really positive move

Keedie

Thank you all for such kind words of wisdom and support. Most of the time, I feel like I'm standing in a crowded room and screaming at the top of my lungs but no one can hear me. Instead they think I'm coping very well with life, and so they lean on me more. It's all very stifling. And lonely. So thank you for making me feel seen, and for being so supportive.

I'll definitely check in with the Citizens Advice Bureau, as I'd in all honesty forgotten they existed 🤦🏾‍♀️ and I'll also check in with ACAS. Thank you for the HR director's perspective @redofromstart, that is really helpful. I do more transactional and operational HR, so I don't really know things from an ER perspective. I have no one that I trust enough within my HR department to have this conversation with them. So I think outside perspectives will have to be my guiding force. I'm extremely anxious about us having to relocate offices, and working across London and commuting via public transport is another factor for not wanting to be there. It's too long and arduous a journey to drive. So I'm forced onto public transport, as I won't be able to keep my disabled parking permit as there's no point moving it to a different office, as I won't be able to do the drive. No job is worth me driving around  1 hour 20 or 30 mins each way and sitting in heavy traffic as well.

I've also taken a rather radical approach to my budget and dealing with my son. Earlier this afternoon, he was furiously job hunting on Indeed, and trying to see what he can do for work. He's spent all of his college food money for the month, because despite my advice that he should receive it weekly, he wanted it all in one go. He's now having to make packed lunch for the next two weeks, as he has spent all of his allowance as well. He said he doesn't want to be in the same position again, and asked me to help him with his December budget. Seeing him so serious with his calculator and a calendar made me realise that he's old enough to properly sort himself out. 

He keeps asking for things, and I've got fed up. And the budget category for him keeps going over and it's been annoying me. So this evening, whilst he was eating his dinner, and taking a break from trying to work out his budget, I just thought to myself, cut him out of your budget and give him the chance to stand on his own two feet with a safety net. So after he had his dinner and willingly came back to me to tell me his approach to his finances, I just told him that I'll give him every penny that I get from child benefit and universal credit (even though for the UC, I don't get the full amount available as I work, so my wages are offset against my entitlement), and it comes up to £435.73 for a 4 week month and £461.33 for a 5 week month. He was flabbergasted! And I told him from now on, he's responsible for his monthly travelcard, topping up his oyster card, food for college, spending money for the month, clothes, shoes, socialising, his EA Access subscription, his Crunchyroll subscription and his Playstation Plus subscription and anything else he needs. I told him not to ask me for a penny, and he needs to learn to budget what he has. And that by doing this, it impacts my own budget and plans for what I want to do in life, but I'm willing to do it, as he needs to learn and I need peace. He's very excited about having more financial control, but as we sat and done a preliminary budget for all of the things he has to pay for, he quickly realised that it won't last and it's not a lot of money for all the things he wants to do. 

But he surprised me, as he ran to get a notepad and asked me to break it all down for him. Then he asked me to help him to budget the money he gets as he keeps running out. He wants to sit with me this week and do a budget spreadsheet, so that he can print it out and laminate it and put it on his wall behind his bedroom door so he can keep a track of things. He said he wants to be able to put the calendar up too, and get himself sorted. I told him that the child benefit and universal credit runs out in August 2025, as he is not planning on returning to college as he wants to work, so both things will stop. He said he intends to get a job and save, as I told him that once they run out, he's not to come back to me for anything. Especially as I can't even guarantee I'll be working at that point. He's grateful for the opportunity and told me that he's going to make sure that he succeeds. He costs me less than the monthly amount he'll be getting each month, but not by a great margin as there is always something that is needed, or I give him the odd few pounds here and there and it adds up.

We'll see how it goes. He'll get financial autonomy, and most importantly, I'll get peace. 

Cherryfudge

That's major progress for your son. Good for him - and hopefully, good for you too. It isn't easy letting them sink or swim but he sounds very determined and I'd imagine there are lots of seasonal jobs at the moment to get him started.

Keedie

THE SUNDAY SUMMARY

(Week 46 ~ 17 November 2024)

Debt Regrets

Goal 1 - 100% repayment to Bank of Mum 3 (school fees) - due 1 April 2024
Progress Checker = £3,800/£3,800 (100% repaid)
🎉 Achievement Date = 24 March 2024 🎉

Goal 2 - Pay £5,000 off my overall debt balance in 2024 - due by 31 December 2024

Progress Checker = £4,398.80/£5,000 (87.98% repaid)
There hasn't been any payments in the last couple of weeks, so this is still sitting at 87.98% of the target amount repaid in debt.

Goal 3 - Clear Barclaycard Plan 1 (£6,508.43) - due by 31 January 2025
Progress checker = £3,797.23/£6,508.43 (58.34% repaid)
Because I have not been feeling very mentally well, I've just stopped caring about this debt to be honest. I won't be in a position to clear it all by 1 February 2025, and things aren't looking too good on the sibling repayment front. So I'll just see where I stand with money transfers in late December 2024 or early January 2025, and take it from there. But only for the bit that I am responsible for. I don't care so much about interest accrual for the part that my siblings owe on the card. I doubt it would be able to all be covered, so they may need to add interest to what they owe. If I can cover it, then I'll have to add the balance transfer fee for their portion. I can't keep carrying everyone. I've got £55.37 sitting in my Debt Buster pot, and I'll see what I can accumulate by mid-January 2025 and then pay that as a lump sum. 

Saving Grace

Goal 1 - Save £500 for my son's 18th birthday - due by 30 September 2024
Progress Checker = £500/£500 (100% saved)
🎉 Achievement Date = 15 September 2024 🎉

Goal 2 - Save £500 emergency fund - due by 31 December 2024
Progress Checker = £62.34/£500 (11.42% saved)
I'm slowly building this back up, and I've been using the 1% cashback I get from Chase when I'm spending on my card, to trickle into this account. With the change in my budget from December 2024, due to stepping back from my son financially, I may not have enough now to finish this goal in December 2024. But I have some freelance work coming up, so that should be able to rebalance things.

Balancing the Budget

This section of my weekly check-in will focus on how I am preparing for the upcoming month, so that I can stay on track and be more successful in meeting my targets.

Income Tracker - £2,775 for December 2024's Budget
Progress Checker = £1,500/£2,775 (54.05% accumulated)
After removing my son from my budget and working out what I need for Christmas 2024, and to get my headlights sorted as one isn't working. It comes to £2,775 which includes £2,175 for the monthly budget plus £500 for Christmas (because I didn't save for this properly throughout the year) and £100 for my headlight. Both Christmas and the car are generous estimations of things, and so I'm hoping to be far under budget by the end of December 2024. I needed to spend some money to take care of a few things, so I have less saved for December's budget than I did two weeks ago, and the amount required has increased, so I've dropped down to 54.05% accumulated. But I get paid at the end of the week, and the child benefit for the next two weeks will go towards my December budget. Then from 3 December 2024 onward, the child benefit in its entirety will go towards my son for him to budget.

Freely Debt Savings - £100 Goal for December 2024
Progress Checker = £0/£100 (0% saved)
The whole budget has changed, so if I manage to eek out £100, I will be very proud of myself. It's not very likely, but rather than having no goal or faith, I figured I'd still have a stretch goal and see where I land target wise. I might get lucky enough to get the freelance invoice paid early like I did last month, and if that is the case, then that is where the £100 will come from. If it doesn't then there's always January 2025 to work towards...

Keedie

Yes I'm hoping that he does swim rather than sink @Cherryfudge! But I figured if I'm always acting as his life jacket, neither of us will ever know if he can be more responsible. And he seems very happy, even if it's a bit daunting for him. He wants to try, and that's the main thing.

KajiKita

I’m glad the CAB suggestion was helpful 😊
When you contact ACAS, make sure you mention the office location change and the impact that will have on you. With your recognised disability (you have a parking permit etc.) to me this sounds like it is verging on constructive dismissal - worth checking if I’m correct, as it has a lot of leverage in a leaving conversation / negotiation / discussion. If you are in a union, contact them as well. 

It sounds like your son is stepping up, but I think your instincts are right to pass the money to him one chunk at a time. Either weekly as per your original idea or as the child benefit and UC come in, so if he does go a bit crazy there will be some kite cash coming to him. I wish him luck in his job hunt! 😊

KK

Keedie

My managers made me cry yesterday. So yeah, things are definitely moving quicker than I thought in terms of an exit strategy. I was so distressed by everything, I could't stop crying on the way home, and called in sick today. I'm not even sure I'll be in a position to work tomorrow.

My Head of Service dropped a bombshell yesterday in our wider team meeting, that the Director has determined that with immediate effect (as in this week), we were all to work in the office two days a week - no exceptions. I panicked and became really anxious as I need to sort things out to be able to do this. So as soon as the Teams Meeting finished, I immediately started emailing my line manager and Head of Service to ask for a little more time to implement the increase in office days. It will be draining and awkward to go in more often, but an order is an order 🤷🏾‍♀️.

Whilst writing my email, my manager stands up and tells us that she is available to talk if we need her, and I said "yeah, because this isn't going to really work for me". She then abruptly told me this needs to be discussed in private, to which I replied, "yeah" or "I know", and then she proceeded to keep telling me that it's essentially not professional to have the conversation now, and it's a private matter. To which I kept replying, "I know, I'm not trying to discuss it now" (it's an open plan office and I was already drafting an email). She kept talking over me to point out that what I was doing was inappropriate (until she offered to speak to us, I'd not said a word or disparaged the decision, I was simply drafting my own email). I ended up getting really irritated with her, as she was trying to paint me as disruptive when that wasn't the case, and so I snapped and said "I get XXX!". To which there was stone cold silence in the office and she sat down in a huff, then tried to call me into a room for a meeting and I told her that I was busy training the new staff (which was true and she knew it was happening). I declined her offer and told her that I've sent an email instead. She called me into a meeting after our sub team meeting ended and told me off for the way I spoke to her. I apologised, and said that she also needs to reflect on how she communicates with people, as she kept pushing me and talking over me because she treated me as if I was causing upheaval when I wasn't. And that if I can be humble enough to acknowledge where I went wrong, I don't think it is too much to ask that she does the same. She told me that never happened (see the gaslighting?) and I said I sweared on my dad's grave that she did. She said I was lying.

Well anyways, my Head of Service and manager both thought my email was rude (I disagree). I think I was direct, but not hostile. My opening paragraphs were negative and unnecessary (no context is required apparently when expressing that you can't immediately adhere to mandated instructions), offensive (as I was allegedly berating my Head of Service for her delivery 🙄) and I shouldn't have put any of this in writing (I personally think they don't want an audit trail of what my concerns). And that I should have requested a meeting instead.

This is the opening of my email, that led to nearly an hour and a half, of being told off by my managers, and I ended up crying in frustration. I was constantly being told how I need to be mindful of everyone's feelings, how I need to be aware of how I come across, an email was unnecessary, I should have just called a meeting, they were going to meet with me anyway. Oh, and also, I can write to them, but don't expect them to like it more or less, as they thought a meeting was the best course of action. I pointed out that putting things in writing allows me to document things, and it's my preferred method of communication and I shouldn't be shamed for that.

Can someone please tell me where I went wrong, as I didn't get a proper response when I asked them, even when we opened the email in the meeting. I said that I'm happy for the feedback, and that I will be more mindful, but I will be limiting communication with them, as they do not like how I say things, and I don't want to be second guessing everything. I was told to stop being defensive. I said I would be more mindful of the recipient of my emails and discussions and how they may feel, but would like the same courtesy extended to me. No one considered how I felt with the news we were given, and if I was wrong I apologise, but help me to understand so I know what is expected from me moving forward. Maybe I am just being arrogant, or incredibly difficult, but if someone can please tell me what I need to correct so that I don't have the same problems when I get another job. I don't want to aggravate people, and I will always stand up for myself, but I can't get another job and be paranoid about emails and stuff, so I need to work on whatever it is that I am doing wrong. Anyways, it was the first two paragraphs that led to me being reprimanded (ignore the fact that I clearly can't read a calendar and dates properly 🤦🏾‍♀️).

Following this morning’s announcement that we are in the office two days a week with immediate effect, commencing this week, I need to raise my concerns regarding this change and the short notice of its implementation.

Whilst I understand that the decision has been made for all of the HR division to attend the office twice a week, and I do not disagree with this in principle, the manner in which it has been done is impractical for me to immediately adhere to. As I am disabled, there are varying factors which need careful consideration before I can action the requested change, as this is not simply an increase in office days for me, as it has a huge impact upon my day to day life, energy and pain levels. There are also logistical considerations, which I have noted below:

• Parking – I need time to extend the days of my disabled parking permit, as at present it only applies on a Tuesday, so I need to add an additional day so that I can continue to drive to work. I have been advised that the permit is only valid on fixed days of the week, so I need to confirm my working days and then ask for the extended permit days
• Care Support – I currently have a carer that attends on a Wednesday and Thursday to help me with food shopping and domestic tasks in my home, I need time to change the details of my care plan with social services and the care agency. Attending the office on a Monday is impractical for me, as I need a gentle day working from home before I commute for the week.
• Working Hours - I currently work 3.5 days, and was due to increase to 4 days a week from 2 December 2024. I now have to rethink my whole working pattern and contracted hours, as I am not able to physically to do 2 days in the office and increase my hours from 24 per week to 28 per week. I need to look at my finances, and see if I can move some things around, as I may not be able to proceed with an increase in working hours after all.

 I am on leave for some of next week, as I am only working Tuesday 25 November 2024 and Thursday 26 November 2024, but I cannot guarantee that I am able to come to the office on the Thursday, as it depends on whether or not the care agency are able to move my care call to a different day and time of that week, that I would be home and available.

 Therefore, can the increase in office days in my case, please start in the week commencing 2 December 2024? I will keep you updated regarding the parking, my care support and working hours as soon as I have everything in place.

I never once said that I wouldn't comply with the instruction, I just said that I need time to logistically work things out, as it impacts my whole life including my finances. They were after all asking people to make immediate changes with no notice whatsoever. For able bodied people, it may be an annoying inconvenience, but for me, I have to move so many things around, which I'm willing to do, but I can't do immediately. When I said that I will adjust things accordingly due to the change in requirements, I was told that I had "changed my tune" after initially saying that I couldn't do it (hence I put things in writing as they twist what people say - as my email didn't say no, it asked for my time so that I could comply). When I pointed out that they need to reread my email, and explain where I said that, I was brushed off. I have a massive headache and I barely slept last night.

But hey, at least I redid my budget today and completely disregarded any wages, and I can do everything within my benefits. My poor son will be getting a change to his budget freedom as well. I explained that I have to leave my job very soon, and he said not to worry about him, he's getting a job soon and it would have been nice to have more money, but not if I have to stay at a toxic workplace to earn it. And he said that he could go down there and tell them to leave his mum alone (bless him 😂). I gave him a hug and said thanks, but quitting ASAP just makes more sense than him getting upset with them and trying to flex his muscles 💪🏾🤣.

KajiKita

Oh Keedie, what a dreadful workplace and management team … 🙄

Firstly, your email is fine. They know perfectly well that you are disabled and it is not an unreasonable request that you asked for more time to make adjustments. The tone was fine as well. There is no berating of anyone in that email! 

Tbh, the whole situation and interaction with them suggests to me that either there is a WHOLE lot of business stuff going on that you are not aware of and they are struggling to cope with it, or, sadly, that they dislike you and have no patience with you - staggeringly unprofessional either way …. I think your instincts are spot on about keeping records and documenting requests formally. Keep doing it. 

DO NOT quit! Ring the GP tomorrow and get a sick note for as long as possible. You won’t be going back (I promise), but keep the income coming in for now. If you resign you will have to work your notice, which I think is not a good option for you to even contemplate at the moment. 

I’m not sure what timescale the office relocation is happening in? There may be a possibility of reaching a settlement with your employer as in effect they have made the role inaccessible to you. I think you are in a union? Please contact them and discuss all of what has happened with them. 

In the meantime I am sending you a huge, comforting and reassuring hug x

KK