EV range

MouldyOldDough

Here's the evidence that EV's are more expensive to run that IC cars

A new Kia Nero EV would currently cost £51.19 to charge from empty with the Osprey network for a quoted estimated range of 285 miles.

The new Niro (mild) hybrid petrol variant would cost £64.70 to fill from empty at the current average UK petrol price of £1.54/litre. Although that is more than the electric vehicle (EV), it can cover more than double the range, making it cheaper mile for mile.

Herzlos

MouldyOldDough said:

Here's the evidence that EV's are more expensive to run that IC cars

A new Kia Nero EV would currently cost £51.19 to charge from empty with the Osprey network for a quoted estimated range of 285 miles.

The new Niro (mild) hybrid petrol variant would cost £64.70 to fill from empty at the current average UK petrol price of £1.54/litre. Although that is more than the electric vehicle (EV), it can cover more than double the range, making it cheaper mile for mile.

And can you tell us how fast the Osprey charger your using is, along with the kwh rate?

Why are you comparing super expensive fast chargers with average petrol station prices (it's apparently £1.52 now), despite being it being pointed out repeatedly that it's a bad example?

So running the math, the Niro has a 68kwh battery. So your figure is using a 75p/kwh charger?

If you run it with an average domestic rate of 35p/kwh then you're looking at £23.80 to fill up. Even at half the range that's about 1/3rd of the cost.

Or using Octopus go 10p/kwh it's only £6.80...

You'll then say "but not everyone can charge at home" and I'll say "well, yeah, we've covered this before. Fast charger is more akin to a motorway service station - it costs a fortune but you only put in enough to get to the next cheaper station".

MouldyOldDough

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Here's the evidence that EV's are more expensive to run that IC cars

A new Kia Nero EV would currently cost £51.19 to charge from empty with the Osprey network for a quoted estimated range of 285 miles.

The new Niro (mild) hybrid petrol variant would cost £64.70 to fill from empty at the current average UK petrol price of £1.54/litre. Although that is more than the electric vehicle (EV), it can cover more than double the range, making it cheaper mile for mile.

And can you tell us how fast the Osprey charger your using is, along with the kwh rate?

Why are you comparing super expensive fast chargers with average petrol station prices (it's apparently £1.52 now), despite being it being pointed out repeatedly that it's a bad example?

So running the math, the Niro has a 68kwh battery. So your figure is using a 75p/kwh charger?

If you run it with an average domestic rate of 35p/kwh then you're looking at £23.80 to fill up. Even at half the range that's about 1/3rd of the cost.

Or using Octopus go 10p/kwh it's only £6.80...

You'll then say "but not everyone can charge at home" and I'll say "well, yeah, we've covered this before. Fast charger is more akin to a motorway service station - it costs a fortune but you only put in enough to get to the next cheaper station".

Osprey has apparently increased its charges further still to £1 per kWh with others expected to follow

Also see https://www.parkers.co.uk/electric-cars/electric-charging-infrastructure-uk/

As for the difference between rapid and normal speed chargers - would you REALLY want to wait around for 4 + hours whilst your EV half charges - and that's IF there is no queue to get connected in the first place - when you can get a full rapid charge in less than an hour - especially when you are on a long motorway journey ?

Yes - if you have a home charger (over 1/4 of UK homes have no parking facilities so cannot home charge) you can do this for considerably less.

alternatively - you can refill completely in less than 5 minutes with an IC

I know which I would prefer

And worst of all - I could NEVER charge a car myself - due to a disability and there is nobody around to help me to plug / unplug my car !

Herzlos

You'll rarely need to sit around waiting for an EV to charge though, that's the beauty of it.

Even on a road trip, you can usually charge whilst doing something else (like a comfort break or grabbing a coffee). Even if you do want to stand and watch it rapid charge, you pay a lot for that but only need to put in enough to get you to the destination. Just like at a motorway services, if you've only got 100 miles to go you only put in 100 miles of super expensive fuel.

The disability angle is one that does present problems, in that most of the charger spaces are end-on, narrow and can be hard to access. I'm assuming the disability problem is that you struggle to access the charger from the parking space, rather than using the charger itself? Because from my position of ignorance, plugging a power socket in isn't going to be any different to using a petrol pump?

Jenni_D

Herzlos said:

You'll rarely need to sit around waiting for an EV to charge though, that's the beauty of it.

Even on a road trip, you can usually charge whilst doing something else (like a comfort break or grabbing a coffee). Even if you do want to stand and watch it rapid charge, you pay a lot for that but only need to put in enough to get you to the destination. Just like at a motorway services, if you've only got 100 miles to go you only put in 100 miles of super expensive fuel.

The disability angle is one that does present problems, in that most of the charger spaces are end-on, narrow and can be hard to access. I'm assuming the disability problem is that you struggle to access the charger from the parking space, rather than using the charger itself? Because from my position of ignorance, plugging a power socket in isn't going to be any different to using a petrol pump?

Other than perhaps the weight of the cable/plug, which tend to be heavier than a fuel hose?

Cloudane

On-paper range figures tend to be optimistic.

Ask a real world owner of your EV of interest, and make sure they're someone realistic who drives normally, not a hypermiler and not someone looking to "sell" EVs to you by cherry picking their best outcomes. 
For example I just searched and it seems my Mk1 Zoe (R240) has a WLTP figure of 93 miles.  That's much more honest than the other figure they advertised of 149, but it's still "on a nice day on a flat road in Summer if you keep your foot light and don't mind arriving with the car chiming at you and your passengers still shaking from range anxiety".

Realistically I'd be telling you you're looking at 60 miles in winter (should stretch to 70 in a pinch with it shouting at you for the last 5-10, but most people want some safety margin), 80 in the summer, 70 in mild spring/autumn days.  And that yeah you can get 90-100 in summer with the above caveats but most people won't be driving like that.

(Talking an old EV here of course but it's just my example)

MouldyOldDough

Herzlos said:

You'll rarely need to sit around waiting for an EV to charge though, that's the beauty of it.

Even on a road trip, you can usually charge whilst doing something else (like a comfort break or grabbing a coffee). Even if you do want to stand and watch it rapid charge, you pay a lot for that but only need to put in enough to get you to the destination. Just like at a motorway services, if you've only got 100 miles to go you only put in 100 miles of super expensive fuel.

The disability angle is one that does present problems, in that most of the charger spaces are end-on, narrow and can be hard to access. I'm assuming the disability problem is that you struggle to access the charger from the parking space, rather than using the charger itself? Because from my position of ignorance, plugging a power socket in isn't going to be any different to using a petrol pump?

Yes but petrol stations are normally manned with helpful staff who come out and filll my car for me !!

MouldyOldDough

Cloudane said:

On-paper range figures tend to be optimistic.

Ask a real world owner of your EV of interest, and make sure they're someone realistic who drives normally, not a hypermiler and not someone looking to "sell" EVs to you by cherry picking their best outcomes. 
For example I just searched and it seems my Mk1 Zoe (R240) has a WLTP figure of 93 miles.  That's much more honest than the other figure they advertised of 149, but it's still "on a nice day on a flat road in Summer if you keep your foot light and don't mind arriving with the car chiming at you and your passengers still shaking from range anxiety".

Realistically I'd be telling you you're looking at 60 miles in winter (should stretch to 70 in a pinch with it shouting at you for the last 5-10, but most people want some safety margin), 80 in the summer, 70 in mild spring/autumn days.  And that yeah you can get 90-100 in summer with the above caveats but most people won't be driving like that.

(Talking an old EV here of course but it's just my example)

I agree - range anxiety is a major issue

Jenni_D

And public EV charge points tend to have people around/nearby who would be perfectly happy to help another EV owner who is struggling.  

Next whataboutery?

Jenni_D

MouldyOldDough said:

Cloudane said:

On-paper range figures tend to be optimistic.

Ask a real world owner of your EV of interest, and make sure they're someone realistic who drives normally, not a hypermiler and not someone looking to "sell" EVs to you by cherry picking their best outcomes. 
For example I just searched and it seems my Mk1 Zoe (R240) has a WLTP figure of 93 miles.  That's much more honest than the other figure they advertised of 149, but it's still "on a nice day on a flat road in Summer if you keep your foot light and don't mind arriving with the car chiming at you and your passengers still shaking from range anxiety".

Realistically I'd be telling you you're looking at 60 miles in winter (should stretch to 70 in a pinch with it shouting at you for the last 5-10, but most people want some safety margin), 80 in the summer, 70 in mild spring/autumn days.  And that yeah you can get 90-100 in summer with the above caveats but most people won't be driving like that.

(Talking an old EV here of course but it's just my example)

I agree - range anxiety is a major issue

Only for people who refuse to change from an ICE mindset. 🙄

But we're in Groundhog Day ... again!