Using Lasting Power of Attorney

BooJewels

I just want to reiterate, that despite some of the irritations I've personally experienced as an Attorney and trying to register LPAs with various organisations - the alternative of not even having one would certainly be far worse.  They're not always easy to register with organisations - and they do seem to vary in how stringently they enforce their ID checks and registration process (I'm pretty sure in some cases that's down to lack of staff training - getting hold of the right person to start with really helps) - but once sorted with any organisation, it does make life so very much easier. I've always been a strong advocate of having them in place, despite my frustrations.

@bjbyorkshire - don't let me put you off - just that your Attorneys should be aware that it can be a slightly frustrating process.  The one thing you have on your side is time - better to be sorting it in advance at leisure - than in an emergency when it's suddenly needed.    Do you perhaps have a friend who has a better scanner and can help you with this process to speed things up?  Once you get a certified copy of each LPA and perhaps either store it safely at home, or send it to the Attorney for safe keeping - then you probably don't need to think about it again.  

bjbyorkshire

Thanks BooJewels,  you have said exactly what I am thinking.  Some kind of blanket system laid out for institutions/banks to follow to make the accepting of LPA's a standardised procedure would certainly make things easier for Attorneys.  

I shall endeavour to scan in copies of both of our LPA's but I'm not sure I know how to add the necessary wording onto the bottom of the documents.  I use an apple computer and have a decent Epson printer so I shall ask on the techie site and some kindly expert on there will no doubt give me a heads up.

Thanks again

elsien

If one of your prospective attorneys lacks the time and the will to carry out the role, it does rather beg the question as to whether they are suitable to appoint in the first place. Is that a discussion that you’ve actually had with them?
The other option is for a solicitor to act for you. Comes at a cost but if your  family members aren’t up to it/for it? 

BooJewels

bjbyorkshire said:

Thanks BooJewels,  you have said exactly what I am thinking.  Some kind of blanket system laid out for institutions/banks to follow to make the accepting of LPA's a standardised procedure would certainly make things easier for Attorneys.  

I shall endeavour to scan in copies of both of our LPA's but I'm not sure I know how to add the necessary wording onto the bottom of the documents.  I use an apple computer and have a decent Epson printer so I shall ask on the techie site and some kindly expert on there will no doubt give me a heads up.

Thanks again

All the solicitors do is photocopy the LPA original (which you have your own) and stamp on each page in a suitable unimportant area and wet ink sign in the box - much the same as the stamp linked to on page 1.  The only difference being that their stamps have their company name and address as part of it.  They don't end up especially elegant, but no one has ever questioned it.  Just ensure that you stamp and sign every single page.

Malthusian

One of mine is not in the slightest bit computer literate and the other one is very computer literate but lacks both time and the will to deal with all my utility companies, 6 or more banks, the council, pensions services etc.

Councils and utilities should require very little work by an attorney, usually you just leave the Direct Debit running. If your attorneys took over your finances there is a good chance they would simplify your banking affairs and close superfluous accounts (unless they were particularly inclined to do extra work to eke out extra interest). There is no urgency to get the LPA accepted for savings accounts that are just sitting there earning interest.

And the job is considerably simpler when there is an LPA in place compared to when there isn't.

If you manage your finances in some kind of unusually complicated way that could go off the rails if you aren't there and compos mentis (e.g. paying your electricity company by posting them a cheque every month) you could "future-proof" your finances by changing that now. If you aren't, it is unlikely that anything too bad will happen in the few weeks or months it takes for your attorneys to get the LPA accepted. Most people's finances run largely on auto-pilot even when they are fully lucid.

He has a stressful day job which takes up all his working hours and some, plus he often works and lives away so not close enough to bundle a mum with dementia into a car and into a town centre to say to a bank "here is mum, this is me, I am her attorney, what do you need from me now?".

He won't need to, he will just send them a certified copy of the LPOA. Standard procedure.

bjbyorkshire

In reply to Elsien ...... I really have no one else to ask to take on the responsibility of being either Executor of my/our wills or to be the Attorney of my/our LPA's other than our son and myself and husband for each other.  If any one of us feels unable to do what is necessary then a solicitor can be engaged but I was strongly advised by members on this forum not to make solicitors my executors.  Our son is the sole beneficiary so when the time comes he can spend his inheritance on engaging a solicitor if he so chooses or he can get his head around the what to do by asking/reading up on line just as I have had to do.  I am trying my best to make it easier for him when he has to sort out our respective affairs but he doesn't make it easy for me.  Yes, he knows what he has signed up for but he does not know what the process of finalising an end of life's affairs entails.  He has never had to do it but he is intelligent enough I hope, to get help if and when he needs it.  There will be money left to him which will ease the path a bit, if only he can access it.

BooJewels .....  if I photocopy the 15 pages of the LPA then add the exact wording required to every page, sign and date the photocopy I can then scan the photocopy into my computer so that I can send off either a scan of the LPA or post the photocopy which has the signatures and date on them.  By wet ink do you mean I need to use a fountain pen or is a black biro sufficient?  Last question hopefully.  Does the page which came back accompanying the LPA which says "notice of registration of a Lasting Power of Attorney"  also need to be part of the document?  This states the case number, the donors name and both the attorneys names plus the date it was registered.

Many thanks everyone.  I hope this thread is useful in the future to anyone else wondering how to complete this part of the LPA.

BooJewels

bjbyorkshire said:

BooJewels .....  if I photocopy the 15 pages of the LPA then add the exact wording required to every page, sign and date the photocopy I can then scan the photocopy into my computer so that I can send off either a scan of the LPA or post the photocopy which has the signatures and date on them.  By wet ink do you mean I need to use a fountain pen or is a black biro sufficient?  Last question hopefully.  Does the page which came back accompanying the LPA which says "notice of registration of a Lasting Power of Attorney"  also need to be part of the document?  This states the case number, the donors name and both the attorneys names plus the date it was registered.

Many thanks everyone.  I hope this thread is useful in the future to anyone else wondering how to complete this part of the LPA.

I'm in the process of putting these sort of things in place for my son too (he's buying a house, so I'm holding off until his address is settled) - having just executed 2 estates and learning [the hard way] what would make it easier.  So I'm currently putting together a document which lists all of my details - such as utility suppliers, account numbers, how I pay etc.  I'll make a note to check and update it once a year - or more often if I know I've changed anything.  That should give him a good starting point.  At the point where I took over doing this stuff for my Dad I'd ask ask him something about Santander and he'd reply with who are they then, I've never heard of them.  So even if I go doolally and things change, it'll start him off.  My aunt has already gone through everything with my sister and I and showed us where she keeps papers etc.,  She's very organised, so hers will be a doddle compared to my parents - we're both her attorneys and executors.

By wet ink - I just meant you have to actually sign each sheet yourself with a proper pen - you can't put the sig onto the scan and print it with the rest of the page content.  So print, then sign.  Just buy one of the stamps - they have them on Amazon from about 9 quid - save yourself some wrist ache.  Unless specified otherwise, I tend to sign with a blue pen, just so that it's obvious as a signature on a photocopy.    Some places will accept a scanned copy of the signed/certified copy, others require sight of either a certified copy or the original, so perhaps keep the signed copy safe for now and email the scan to the Attorneys - if you can trust them to keep them safe until they're required.

As for what pages, the ones I have are pre-2018 and I think they've changed a little since then - some organisations will accept the number, as they can access the digital register.  If in doubt, print and sign it, just in case.

bjbyorkshire

BooJewels you're a star, thanks so much for the above.   Son lives with us so I will keep all the paperwork.  I keep trying to tell him bits as we go along but all I get in return is "are you thinking of popping off soon then"  or "I don't want your money, just spend it".  Not what I want to hear.  We have no one else in our family so he will have to rely on his friends who may also have had to go through this process by that time.  I will be able to do what is necessary if husband pre deceases me or loses competence, he can't get to grips with a computer no matter how often I show him, but if it's me who goes first then between the two of them I hope my filing system is of some use to them.  I have had 2 close friends died this last year, same age as me, and it does suddenly make you think about the what if's.  In both their cases the husbands were up to speed with their banking and finances but in ours it has always been my job so I worry what the outcome will be.  I'm sure they will manage but I just want to make things as easy as I can.  In the meantime I need to think of some expensive things to treat myself to, lol.

Thanks to all, I think this has now answered all my questions.

Marmaduke123

I do wonder if the negative experiences some people have had when trying to register an LPA with banks are atypical, and possibly due to poor staff training.

Both Natwest and Santander appear to offer online registration, and no doubt other banks do the same.

This has been a very useful thread, and I intend to buy a stamp and self certify copies of my LPA to give to my attorneys, with instructions about exactly what to do when and if the time comes!

Thanks to everyone.

JGB1955

I was dealing with an Enduring POA for my father, rather than an LPOA but guess the experience was the same.  Barclays were a bit of a nightmare - took a one hour appointment for them to photocopy the EPOA and take all of my ID but then, at least, I DID get full access to my father's bank accounts (including online banking).  Santander were (not for the first time in my experience)  sadly lacking.  Not in their initial registration (similar process to Barclays) but in their processes once my father had lost capacity.  Barclays put a stop to his cards and access immediately, Santander said 'Yes, that's fine - we've noted that your father shouldn't be operating this account', but still sent him replacement debit cards and statements.  Grhhhhh!